BEF formation patches

[thejammedgatling]

Hi all

I am just about to start painting my late war British and wanted to find out information on the formation patches to be found on the upper arms of the men. I've done some internet fishing but information seems ...well..patchy. You know the sort...green triangle next to yellow square ..that sort of thing. Canadian and Australian battalions seem to have quite a well ordered system but I can't find much on the Brits. Is there a good site out there with some colour plates to look at?

I'll be running a late war (1918 Kaiserschlact) campaign later in the year and especially wanted to put together a Scots Guards unit.

Any help/ steering appreciated.

[Phil Robinson]

I don't know of any one stop shop on the web for this, I think its a case of just trawling around it is quite a complex subject. Your best bet is to try and get hold of a copy of this Osprey

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/British-Battle-Insignia-(1)_9780850457278

[Phil Robinson]

Forgot to say if there is a particular formation you want info on let me know and I will consult the Osprey.

[thejammedgatling]

thanks for the reply

I didn't know about that Osprey...is it quite thorough or just gives samples?

I appreciate the offer to look up...the units I was after were:

1/2nd battalions Royal Scots
1st battalion East Surrey
1st battalion Kings Shropshire LI
12th/ 15th Royal Irish Rifles (36th DIV)
1/5 Gordon Highlanders (51st DIV)

any light shed most appreciated!

[cdr]

Hello
Scots guards had a patch of royal stewart tartan on the side of the helmet. The text Scots Guards and the number of the bataillon in white on a red patch on the shoulder.  For the others you could see the Great War Forum.

Carl

[Phil Robinson]

thanks for the reply

I didn't know about that Osprey...is it quite thorough or just gives samples?

I appreciate the offer to look up...the units I was after were:

1/2nd battalions Royal Scots  
1st battalion East Surrey
1st battalion Kings Shropshire LI

any light shed most appreciated!

At the time the book was published it was the most complete and comprehensive account available. I could do with knowing which division the above were in if possible as that is how they are grouped in the book

[Phil Robinson]

thanks for the reply

I didn't know about that Osprey...is it quite thorough or just gives samples?

I appreciate the offer to look up...the units I was after were:

12th/ 15th Royal Irish Rifles (36th DIV)
"The 36th division used coloured inverted triangles for the senior brigade and half circles for the intermediate brigade and rectangles for the junior brigade, these have been noted being worn on the sleeve and helmet covers. Late in the war the Red Hand of Ulster divisional sign, embrided on a drab shield was worn on the sleeve." The book has no details on the colours of the patches I'm afraid.
1/5 Gordon Highlanders (51st DIV)
"These wore stripes of cloth on their sleeves (1st Officers wore these vertically) to indicate brigade by colour, and battalion by their number. They did not begin to wear the famous "HD" sign on their sleeves until 1919." Again no detail on particular coloursany light shed most appreciated!

[thejammedgatling]

At the time the book was published it was the most complete and comprehensive account available. I could do with knowing which division the above were in if possible as that is how they are grouped in the book

Thanks for the info..much appreciated.

The Royal Scots were I believe fighting in the 3rd Division (the 'Iron Division') under General Deverell. The East Surreys were part of the 33rd Division and the KSLI seem to also be part of the 3rd Division at that stage of the war..but information was a bit vague on them.

Looks like I may have to make up some pretty colours!

[Phil Robinson]

OK, Royal Scots -3rd Div

Info for the 2nd is - Blue colour patches and different shapes for each company
A Square, B Triangle, C Diamond, D Circle and HQ a Five Pointed Star

The first would have the same system but the colour is not mentioned.

First East surrey were in the 5th Div in 1917, according to the Osprey no insignia were worn by this division.

Can't find any reference to the Shrops LI in the book.

Hope this helps anyway.

[cdr]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3964

try this one 

Carl

[thejammedgatling]

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3964

try this one 

Carl

thanks Carl..I shall make an effort to contact on the forum.

OK, Royal Scots -3rd Div

Info for the 2nd is - Blue colour patches and different shapes for each company
A Square, B Triangle, C Diamond, D Circle and HQ a Five Pointed Star

The first would have the same system but the colour is not mentioned.

First East surrey were in the 5th Div in 1917, according to the Osprey no insignia were worn by this division.

Can't find any reference to the Shrops LI in the book.

Hope this helps anyway.

Cheers Phil for the look ups. There's also a book coming out on 'The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Uniforms of World War 1' which reaches print soon and hopefully will have some reference to insignia. They are advertising it on Amazon. Thanks again.

[archangel1]

...There's also a book coming out on 'The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Uniforms of World War 1' which reaches print soon and hopefully will have some reference to insignia...

I wouldn't count on it.  I have three books in the same series.  Lots of great uniform art, maybe a few closeups of equipment or standards, but nothing really specific on badges or insignia in any of them.