Return to Zenda

[Red Orc]

No apologies for the title - I've been trying to find a way of using it for years (decades, probably).

Every now and then I get bitten by the Ruritanian bug. So as Atlantis seems pretty much done with I'm turning back to all things ,,Mitteleuropa''.

The last topic about this is here (link), but that finished about a year ago. I know I don't paint very fast but that really is ridiculous.

The problems with coming up with an overall chronology and geography for Ruritania are related, and boil down 'Ruritania is in Germany, and thus effectively ended with the German Empire of 1871' (of course, the German monarchies did continue to 1918, so it's possible that Ruritania is a post-1871 German royal state, like Bavaria, but more likely the action is set in the 1860s), or 'Ruritania is in Austria-Hungary and continues until 1918, when it can become independent' (thus the action can be plausibly as late as c1885).

Two pieces of evidence that I'm prepared to take seriously I think weigh in favour of the later date. The first - much more serious - is that Rudolf Rassendyll, in refering to the portraits of his ancestors, says that the red hair and long noses of the Elphbergs are visible on 'five or six' of the family portraits. His elder brother Robert (Bob), Earl of Burlesdon, says that the Elphberg features crop up 'once a generation'. This might imply '5 or 6' generations including both the 6th Earl and Rudolf himself, approximately 125-150 years, allowing a 'standard' genealogical generation of 25 years. I'd hazard that the 6th generation is Rudolf's own, and he's being coy about his portrait. Rudolf refers to the portraits as being 'of the past century-and-a-half'. The known date of the birth of the first Rassendyll with red hair is 1733/4 (probably 1734, prince Rudolf came to England in 1733, stayed 'several months', then fought a duel, was injured and smuggled home, and 8 months after this the 6th Earl was born - if '1733' means 'January 1733', then the child could have been born in December of that year, but that seems to pushing the point and 1734 seems a more likely year). Then the 'century-and-a-half' would give a date for the composition of 'Zenda' (not more than four years after the events it describes) of 'around 1884'.

The second piece of evidence - admitedly, much more circumstantial - is the description by PG Wodehouse and Evelyn Waugh of an 'ex-King of Ruritania', who seems to work as a doorman at Barribault's Hotel in London. This might imply that the Ruritanian monarchy survived past 1918, and is therefore more likely to be in Austria-Hungary than in Germany. Wodehouse and Waugh are both 'real' in my campaign-world-history-continuum, where the Royal Corps of Halberdiers and Jeeves and Wooster co-exist with, among others, Sherlock Holnmes and anyone I can pilfer from HG Wells.

On the question of geography, I keep coming up with the assertion that Ruritania is 'between Dresden and Prague'. God help me, I can't find that in the books anywhere. Just that it's near Dresden... possibly up to 60 miles (100km) or so away. No mention of Prague. There's a reason for this I think. Ruritania is regarded as 'an important kingdom'. Strelsau is a city compared to Paris. Is there any chance anyone else will agree with me that Strelsau is Prague, and Ruritania isBohemia? Just, you know, one with a German dynasty?

[fastolfrus]

Just to throw in another thought- Ruritania doesn't have to be German or Austrian if you take it as equivalent to Liechtenstein.

[Red Orc]

Yeah, that was one of the ideas that we were kicking around a while ago - perhaps it's technically independent of both Empires.

The main problem with that is just a question of size. Liechtenstein is tiny, about 24km (15miles) in total at its longest. It's smaller for instance than most English counties. Whereas Ruritania is at least 80km (50 miles) long, if not considerably more than that. Rudolf travels 10 miles over the border to Zenda and then another 50 to Strelsau, so even if he travels 10 miles and does a 90 degree turn before travelling 50 miles, it's 50 miles long and 10 wide. But the border seems to be closest to Zenda at the point Rudolf crosses; so we can draw a 20 mile wide circle round Zenda and say 'no border', which incidently adds both another 10 miles of width and length. And that's the smallest it can be - 60 miles (about 96km) long and 20 miles (32km) wide. In contrast to Liechtenstein at 160km² or 62 square miles, Ruritania must be at least (pi x r) + (r x d) - where r (distance of Zenda to border) is 10 miles and d (Zenda to Strelsau) is 50 miles - which gives 531.4 square miles, nine times bigger than Liechtenstein. That is the smallest feasable size for Ruritania, if it is a carrot-shaped country with Zenda in the fat end and Strelsau right out in the tip. Which it probably isn't.

When I did the 'Imaginary Central Europe' map -



- I did the best I could to make Ruritania small and insignificant by turning it sideways (so it runs along the Saxon/Bohemian border, rather than being a great wedge out of Bohemia). Basically it's the Sudetenland. Even so I made it 120 miles long and about 40 wide - much much bigger than Liechtenstein. It doesn't seem credible that a territory that big could not fall under either the Habsburgs or the Hohenzollerns.

It's certainly a conundrum.

BTW - apologies to all fans of the books, I often mis-spell 'Strelsau' as 'Streslau'. A long long time ago I misread it and that's how it stuck in my head - a cross betwee Stettin and Breslau - and so it appears on my map 'Streslau'. But I do know it's Strelsau, honest.

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Also found this historical calendar calculation device. Need to know what day the 19th of July 1589 was in Hungary? Give it a go - http://arc.id.au/Calendar.html - I'm currently checking out in which years 16th of October is a Thursday (Rupert of Hentzau, chapter IV)...

[S J Donovan]

I Remember one edition I read had a great map it, but it was a library book and I didn't make a copy of the map, because it would help place Ruritania.  As I remember the shape was more oriented east/west rather than NE/SW.   
There is some interesting history in The Heart of Princess Orsa going back to the mid-18th C. maybe earlier.
The book was published in 1896 or such so that the action should take place then?
A couple of years ago I collected figures for a late-19thC campaign in Ruritania using mostly Westwind, Foundry and some Old Glory.  Then I painted up some colonial types to use in SW Africa.

[Red Orc]

'Zenda' was published in 1894, 'Hentzau' in 1898 - but in 'Hentzau', Fritz talks about his youngest son being 10 years old, and during the action of the books, only one young child of Fritz and Helga is mentioned - a 'lusty baby' the year before the action of 'Henzau'. So it looks likely that the action of 'Hentzau' takes place at least 10 years before publication, in other words, it's Fritz's memoir rather than an account of current events. And 'Zenda' is four years earlier than that. So probably 1884 at the latest for the action of 'Zenda'.

I haven't tried to include any snippets from 'The Heart of Princess Osra' yet. From memory there's no useful geographical info in them, and little of historical relevance - only that the 'White Palace' in Strelsau is burned down in riots in 1848, and gardens laid out there subsequently. But we know 'Zenda' must be set later than 1848 anyway because Rudolf has an 'Imperial' beard, named for a style from the Second Empire in France, which wasn't founded until 1852. And the railway from Dresden to the Bohemian border wasn't opened until 1848 either, so if Zenda is in that direction then the action must post-date that as well.

The map sounds ace. I wonder if there's any copies floating in cyberspace?

I too am going to be using a lot of Westwind. I have some Zendarian troopers on my painting table, who will become the basis of my Ruritanian force, my commanders are mostly Vampire Slayers (including Kolonel Senf - yes indeed, a German Colonel Mustard - and Kolonel Kartoffeln-ohne-Umlaut, who'll lead my projected Molvanian Jaeger unit), as well as Westwind's Tsar and Tsarina, who will be Queen Flavia and her distant cousin, Albert (possibly of Duke of Strackenz, or Grand Duke of Molvania, or Prince of Graustark, I haven't decided yet). I've also got some Ironclad 'Evil Henchmen' who will take the part of Anarchists or other revolutionists, but progress is slow... Do you have pics of your Ruritanian forces SJD? Sounds like a great project.

[Dr Mathias]

Interesting thread! My latest order (not yet arrived) from Old Glory is a batch of Zendarian Troopers and command, including the vampire hunters. I've been kicking around doing some Ruritania action for years!

[Red Orc]

Well, there was talk after the Atlantis campaign of trying to do the same thing with Ruritania. I can sort of see how a 'War of the Ruritanian Succession' campaign might work, so if there's any interest from all the budding Ruritanians out there, I'd be happy to discuss any ideas.

EDIT: a couple of posts on my blog about this, that might be of interest, relating to the problems of 'fixing' Ruritanian history and geography:
http://redorcsblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/ruritanian-succession-part-1.html
http://redorcsblog.blogspot.com/2012/02/ruritanian-succession-part-2.html

[S J Donovan]

Photos of my painted Ruritanian forces are at http://theheliograph.blogspot.com/
Let me know what you think.

[DrVesuvius]

I applaud your level of research and analysis.  For me I've always been happy to locate Ruritania "somewhere between Paris and Moscow, two valleys over from Graustark")

Is there anything authoritative on Ruritanian uniforms?  My go-to reference for VSF uniforms has always been GDW's Space 1889 Soldiers' Companion, which while not always 100% hisorically accurate is certainly comprehensive.  It lists Ruritanian infantry as wearing grey jackets with black shakos and grey or white pants.  Doesn't seem colourful enough for Ruritania to me.

[Red Orc]

No, there's almost no information on Ruritanian uniforms at all in the three books. Nor on the flag or any heraldry.

When he's pretending to be Rudolf von Elphberg, riding through the streets of Strelsau on his way to the Coronation, Rassendyll wears a white uniform and a helmet... can't remember what colour but I'm assuming it's a cuirassier-type uniform so a similar type of helmet I suppose to French cuirassiers of the Napoleonic period. It's a ceremonial uniform anyway, so it might not be totally up-to-date. Also at the coronation procession, it describes how 'red' flags were flown. Not, I take it, like Paris Commune red flags, but sgnifying 'Elphberg red' somehow. Anyway, pretty much all my Ruritanians will have red trim to refer to this national (or dynastic?) colour.

The sash of the Order of the Rose, Ruritania's highest order of chivalry, is red (which is why my Kolonel Senf and Cousin Albert both have red sashes*).

Bernenstein's uniform is as a cuirassier of the Queen's Guards.

That's about it as far as I can remember.

I agree that grey with grey or white is a bit dull. Black shakos? I think Pickelhaube are more appropriate, certainly by the second half of the C19th.

My Ruritanian 'line' infantry will be resplendant in 'gold' (mustard-yellow) jackets, black trousers, red trim, black pickelhaube, white straps and belts. I don't think that would make them look any other Germans of the period (that I know of anyway).

My next purchase will be of some 'Molvanian' jaegers, who will be (of course) in traditional dark green.

Uhlans after that, in a natty purple I think.

Cuirassiers (if I ever get that far) will probably have to be in white, as per Rudolf's coronation uniform, probably with black boots I'd think.



*You don't know what I'm talking about here, because I didn't post the photo, did I?



WIP of Kolonel Senf, Queen Flavia and 'Cousin Albert'.

[DrVesuvius]

Last night I fired up the '52 movie with Stewart Granger - yes I know it's not going to be faithful to the books, but since the books aren't explicit I thought it might be another option.

At first it just seems like complete uniform chaos, with people changing uniform colours left, right and centre.  But after a while a few patterns do start to appear.

The troops guarding lining the streets for the coronation, guarding Rassendyl and charging to the rescue in the finale are in dark blue jackets with red facings, red pants and a tall kepi/short shako or at the coronation, Bavarian-style crested helmets.  This would seem to be the standard line (and mounted) infantry uniform, with the helmet either a formal dress item or an indicator of a particular elite unit (Guards?).  Blue seems to be a common colour for the formal uniforms at the coronation and the ball.

Tarlenheim and Zapf tend to wear dark blue for formal occasions, but their duty uniform appears to be a sort of maroon/dark red, with a maroon peacked cap and overcoat, which Rassendyl-as-Rudolph dons at one point.  Since you don't see anyone else in these colours I suspect it's either a staff officer or royal bodyguard uniform.

The honour guard at the coronation look like cuirasseurs dressed in cream jackets & pants, which might be a match for the off white/light grey worn at times  by Prince Michael and Rassendyl-as-Rudolph.  A couple of grey uniforms seem to have maroon facings, which again might be a nod to royal service.  There are a couple of figures in British-red uniforms in the coronation scenes - these might be visiting foreigners or possibly dignitaries wearing non-standard uniforms.

Rassendyl-as-Rudolph is crowned in a mustard-gold jacket (there you go, RedrOrc) and later changes into a light blue jacket at the ball, but since no-one else is seen in these colours, they're probably "it's-good-to-be-the-king" vanity outfits.

Ruritanian police/gendarmerie wear dark blue/black with Prussian-style pickelhaubes

Finally Rupert of Hentzau consistently wears a mid-grey uniform of varying cuts, loaded with frogging for the coronation, plain and utilitarian for duty.  This might just be because he's the Nazi-General-whose-different-colour-uniform-is-never-explained*, though in the early drinking scene Rudolph is wearing a similar shade.  His formal uniform is topped with a metal helmet with a crest in the form of a flying bird, identical to the one that Rassendyl-as-Rudolph wears to his coronation, while on duty he wears a modern looking peaked cap.

(EDIT - on second viewing, a couple of guards at Michael's castle wear very similar grey uniforms with peaked caps.  It could be a uniform of those in the Duke's service.  Very few guards are seen, and it's not entirely clear whether these are officers or enlisted ranks)


So there's another paint scheme, at least with some precedent.  I like the slightly out-of-date uniform look of short shakos/tall kepis, especially contrasted with the very modern looking caps some officers wear.  It reinforces the impression of Ruritania as being out of touch with "modern" Europe. (As an aside, the opening graphic is a little vague, but it does seem to suggest Ruritania is somewhere just past the German/Austro-Hungarian border.)

I'd certainly be up for some Atlantis-style Ruritanian collaboration, if anyone else was interested.


(*lookup "Smith & Jones Nazi Generals" on Youtube - can't link here because the scene includes a nazi symbol)

[Red Orc]

Wow! Smashing load of research there.


I haven't seen the film in years (decades even), or watched the 1980s BBC serial of it in the same kind of timeframe. But there doesn't seem to be much that disagrees with the books specifically, except that in the book Rassendyll is definitely wearing a white uniform at his coronation.

I suppose the other way of looking at it is, the only definite thing the book says says about uniforms, the film changes anyway!

In one of the many threads about Ruritania, started by myself, Argsilverson, or former user, or not actually about Ruritania but steared in that direction by someone or other...   ... someone posted some Belgian troops in what I'll call 'short' shako-type hats that looked cool. 'Like armed postmen' I seem to remember I described them. But I'm not too enamoured of the idea of blue jackets, red trousers and kepi/shako hats. Sounds too French to my ears... or eyes, as it were.


Don't remember that Smith & Jones sketch - is it as good as Mitchell & Webb 'SS Officers'?

[DrVesuvius]

Well I'd recommend giving the film a watch, it still holds up fairly well today and the split-screen scenes between Rassendyl and Rudolph are as good as any I've seen since (you'll find yourself forgetting it's Granger & Granger, until you think..."Hang on, they just shook hands... how did they shake hands???")  And Mason's Hentzau is possibly one of cinema's most entertaining villains.

I gave the film a second look today on a better monitor with easier freeze-frame and spotted a couple of mistakes I'd made in the previous post - now corrected.  I also spotted that the infantry officers seem to wear blue pants, while the enlisted and junior officers wear red.  I also spotted the very brief glimpse we got of the Ruritanian artillery - blue coats again with red facings and a high stovepipe shako.

I'd agree the blue & red does look very French - handy if you want to proxy.

The Belgian troops, were they these from Brigade Models http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/GreatWar28/Items/GW28-1101.html ?

They're probably the figures I'd use if I was building a Ruritanian army right now,

Dr V

(Smith and Jones sketch definitely on a par with Mitchell & Webb's.  It spoofs every "Nazi generals at HQ" movie scene ever made.)

[S J Donovan]

I just posted a map from the front piece< from Zenda> I found in the U of South Carolina Library years ago, I think the pub date was several years after the movie.http://theheliograph.blogspot.com

[DrVesuvius]

Nice!  That's almost a campaign map right there.  How does it match up to your analysis, RedOrc?

Personally I'd extend the railway line onwards past Vlod.  Ruritania strikes me as the mitteleuropan equivalent of a fly-over state, somewhere you travel past to get somewhere important, than an end-of-line destination.

Dr V