"good" space marines...?

[B. Basiliscus]

These four pages are a hell of a good read, really helping me learn a bit more about the universe and the history of the game, as well as how to make my future marine platoon shine. I'm thinking over their story, I can jot it down later if any one cares enough about it.
And jumpin' Jesus, looking at that page from nemesis they did steal a lot! The arrows on chaos marine armor are even present on one of those guys!

I've got to quote this because I didn't get an answer before (which is cool, because I got a lot to read instead. ). Teach me of sorcery, my fellows...

do all space marine chapters go by the same rule book?

Are marine forces required to have a psycher unit? Should I probably have one to tussle with things like Eldar and other psycher marines?
Would I have to submit to the will of the chaos gods, or could my marine wizard guy master the warp himself? The fanfiction that turned me onto this says that a sorcerer doesn't have to pledge fealty to a daemon, but that's a fanfiction and I should get my information straight from the horses mouth instead...
if you followed the link, "horses mouth" should have new meaning...

[Inso]

No is the simple answer.

The basic army consists of two troop units and an HQ unit.

However...all chapters will have psykers, chaplains commanders etc BUT they also have their favourite ways of fighting...

White Scars: a lot of bikes and mobile units.
Space Wolves: don't like teleporting.
Blood Angels: lots of assault units...lots of jump-packs (even their command squads)...lots of chaplains.
Blood Ravens: lots of psykers.
Dark angels: Raven wing...fast attack, Death wing...Terminators.

...and ultimately, it depends what you want to field on the table. You don't have to field any specific command unit so there is no need to have a psyker, chaplain or commander...you just choose the one you want as long as you have the HQ slot filled.

[Red Orc]

This entire thread is getting very silly now. 

1) OF COURSE each person is absolutely free to choose to do whatever they care to do with their personal property.  So this point above, made by others as well, is not lost on anyone.

2) The reality is that people who 'go rogue' in the GW universe have very very few opponents to play against, those other people also 'doing what they will' with their own personal property.  I played, and sold, theur games for a long time, my experience is pretty representative.  Simply put, an 'Orky/SM' force will have very few people to play against.  This really seems to be the more operative point if the guy wants to actaully play the game as opposed to engaging in a painting exercise.

OK. I don't often play in GW stores, mostly because I can no longer be bothered explaining that the minis I'm using are GW minis, merely from before the person from the store who's complaining was born. I, as a gamer, who plays at a local games store much more often, and sometimes at a games club, would have absolutely no problem in gaming against someone fielding a codex-legal force (of whatever kind) with non-standard models; neither would any of my regular gaming opponents (of which, to be honest, there aren't that many). We've all used Horrorclix aliens, Superheroes, Heroscape minis, Judge Dread minis, Megablox Dragon Eggs and various other non-standard minis in our armies, it's fine. I'm planning on adding some Dr Who minis even as we speak to one of my armies. I would happily invite B. Bacillus to our group or store to play a non-standard army. An army with non-standard models. Rather than an army with a non-standard list, which is the point I was trying to make before. Other gaming groups and stores may vary.

The point about having few people to play against only applies of course if you can't make a legal SM army out of your SMs. Just because it's possible to envision a situation where you can field Assault Marines as Stormboyz, Devastators as Lootaz, and Tactical Marines as Shoota Boyz, doesn't mean you can't, if necessary field Assault Marines as Assault Marines, etc. "Do you mind if I play this army represented by Space Marine models using the Ork rules?" "I'd rather you didn't." "OK, I'll field them using Space Marine rules... from the (insert favourite SM codex here) army book." Fairly simple really.

It's how we used to play back when it all began. When 30 Space Marines, a mixed bag of JD and Paranoia minis, some Wood Elves, a handfull of Harlequins and their shampoo bottle grav-tank would face off against 16 Space Orks, a hundred or so fantasy orcs, the odd plastic dinosaur and a WWII German half-track or two, battling over a cardboard castle with a room-freshener 'communications array' on the top. I never really saw the need to do things differently.

No is the simple answer.

The basic army consists of two troop units and an HQ unit.

However...all chapters will have psykers, chaplains commanders etc BUT they also have their favourite ways of fighting...

White Scars: a lot of bikes and mobile units.
Space Wolves: don't like teleporting.
Blood Angels: lots of assault units...lots of jump-packs (even their command squads)...lots of chaplains.
Blood Ravens: lots of psykers.
Dark angels: Raven wing...fast attack, Death wing...Terminators.

...and ultimately, it depends what you want to field on the table. You don't have to field any specific command unit so there is no need to have a psyker, chaplain or commander...you just choose the one you want as long as you have the HQ slot filled.

The previous version of the Space Marine rules had a system called 'Chapter Traits' where you could pick certain specialisations for the chapter, but balanced it with certain disadvantages. One disadvantage was called 'Abhor the Witch' I believe, and involved having no psykers in the chapter (this was the disadvantage I chose for my own chapter, the Jade Templars, who had slaughtered their Librarians after they had led a section of the chapter into heresy and ultimately Chaos worship).

While the Chapter Traits system no longer applies, it's possible to never take Librarians, and justify this on fluff grounds by saying that your chapter regards them as tainted, sinful or whatever. I believe the Black Templars don't have Librarians, for this very reason. So even if things aren't directly in the rules, they can still be justified on fluff grounds if you want them to be part of your army.

Example: you always want to field a scout unit, so you decide that your Space Marine force is drawn from an exploratory mission that utilises only part of the chapter's strength, and part of the purpose of this mission is to train new recruits... perhaps they've been seperated from the main body of the chapter and must press every available trainee into service as they're not getting regularly re-supplied with new personel... what has happened to the rest of the chapter? Does the army you're facing have some knowledge of their fate, or are they in some way responsible? Is your force merely a remnant of a chapter that has been mostly destroyed, or are they so far away that they're beyond the possibility of contact? Has the chapter been scattered, or has it deliberately split up for some reason. Perhaps different parts of the chapter are searching for something - lost relics, information about particular enemies and their plots, even details of their own lost history, or maybe they're trying to find evidence to clear their name after being accused of heresy...

The choices you make about your army can generate plot - which is mostly of interest to you. If you're playing someone at a local store that you maybe don't know, they're not going to care overmuch about why you think your army is in the field - or they might, and may have their own plot, but whatever, you can always make the battle important to you if you want, and you can always find some justification or plot hook for any decision you make about the army. Perhaps they don't like plasma guns. Perhaps they really like plasma guns. Perhaps they use lots of bikes, or tanks, or devastator squads, or are always commanded by a chaplain... why? Because they're a rapid reconnaisance unit; an armoured strike force; a seige-unit; they're penitents seeking atonement for a past defeat...

I have a unit called 'the Flamebearers'. They're just a normal SM tactical squad, but they have an icon on their shoulders that my other marine squads don't. I partly did it because I thought it might look cool, but also because I thought it would be interesting to add 'battle honours' to some of my units. The Flamebearers were involved in a battle where their flamer-guy held off an enemy unit in a bottleneck longer than I had any right to expect, giving another of my units time to come up and engage them. The original unit that became the Flamebearers were killed to a man, but I decided I'd commemorate that event and make it part of the force's history. So I added the flame icon, to mark something that was important to me, but hardly to anyone else I play with - it was about 5 years ago and I haven't played the person concerned for ages. But the Flamebearers remain part of my army, their deeds now part of the lore that accompanies them.

Fluff is what you make of it, I reckon.

[Too Bo Coo]

I hear you.  Like I said, I played and sold GW games for a good decade, I worked for my LGS, not a GW shop, and my experience, with very very few exceptions was, Anyone coming to a table with anything that was not 'Codex' simply opened themselves up to the 'Non-Codex' charge as soon as things went bad for that player.  Heck, the argument is so elementary that children could pick up on it.  So this is coming from not only a player, but a store clerk who sold, instructed and watched lots and lots of these games played.

Now, if we are talking about a game with much less market presence, then you have a much different story.  For some odd reason there are people who think breaking a GW rules is akin to breaking a 'Commandment', whereas they have no problemo playing 'fast and loose' with other games.

That all said, other people's mileage may vary...

[Pil]

This topic is a nice read and I'm looking forward to any painted models. As people explained it's easy to devise your own background for your Space Marine chapter and in fact having them as 'good' rebels it will be easier to explain the rather common Space Marines vs. Space Marines battles.

Just gotta figure out a name and then wait for a decade or so to sporadically buy figures when I remember the project...
Star Sharks sounds pretty damn satisfying at the moment.

Regarding inspiration for chapters, there already is a chapter that used to be called "Space Sharks" (granted, a bit different than Star Sharks), they got renamed Carcharodons and Forgeworld released some bits and pieces for them:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Sharks#.T4rrTdVLN8E

Another interesting chapter are the Raptors, or Raptor Legion who tend to have olive drab armour in current fluff:
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raptors_%28Chapter%29#.T4rqi9VLN8E

As far as the mouth on the beakies, it's a great idea and as said also appeared in Rogue Trader, though not really as part of an 'official' colour scheme:


I myself like to vary my colour schemes so I did some space marines in my chapter colours, some in camouflage and some as Field Police, you can see pictures in this old topic:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11432.0

As you can see I'm a little bit of a Rogue Trader nut as well

[Parriah]

...and a game is what you want to make it. If part of his enjoyment is trying to tie his ideas into a game system and the story behind it then why shouldn't he do it?

For me, part of the game is the depth of back-story. It helps you to add character to your troops and to associate with their trials and tribulations on the field. It is much better to 're-enact' a story with troops than to move counters around a playing surface and following basic rules with no story.

I never said otherwise, if anything, I am deeper into the back story of Crimson Skies than he is in 40 K

[Inso]

I never said otherwise, if anything, I am deeper into the back story of Crimson Skies than he is in 40 K

Good  

I'm really lucky because I always make everything up as I go...I don't game or collect to a specific system so I can pretty much decide on what I like.

So...any pix of these friendly marines yet?

[B. Basiliscus]

No, as I said, this will probably be put on the backburner for a long time because I lack the funds to collect very many marines, or even the bits I want to use.
But I have them planned out, so there's that!  
We're just going to have to wait a year or so for it like we do for everyone else's projects.

I really appreciated all the help, and it would be a shame to see this thread die after so much cool input...

[Too Bo Coo]

Thanks for the inspiration, I think I'm going to do a one-ff of 'Movie Marines' in my favorite Orange chapter using Truscale Corvus armor.

1500 points in 10 models, Sweet!

[Andy H]

I'd play, especially using Rogue Trader and the points build system it includes 

[area23]

Over the years I started a few project in a similar vein. Never finished more than a squad, but that's how it goes.
I've got all the components to make a space marine scout platoon, mixed lead and plastic Jes Goodwin figs (at least the heads), meant to be painted in Operation Desert Storm pattern.

another platoon are classic Rogue Trader style space marine renegades. Freedom fighters, terrorists, whatever. Not gothic whatsoever, the kind of guys you'd find in the corner in a bar on a desert planet.

[Doomsdave]

  

• If you have read the Heresy book on the Alpha Legion.....

I was going to mention the Alpha Legion as well.  I read that book when first published and have wanted to do a unit of them ever since. It makes more sense now that their battle-cry is "For the Emporer"