How many figs is 'an army' to you?

[XCIV]

Most of my 28mm and 15mm forces are planned to be about twenty to thirty regulars (units of ten), two or three 'special' units (again of ten), plus some sort of vehicles (one or two), a unit of cavalry, and an artillery piece or two.

Just curious, is this more/less than most of you?

I do more natives, since they need numbers on their side (100 Zulus, for instance, to 40 British foot).

[black hat miniatures]

An Army to me is 12+ units where each unit is at least 16 figures for Infantry and 12 for cavalry. So 150 figures minimum.

But then I didn't grow up with GW games where an "army" is a lot smaller..

Mike

[Dr. The Viking]

It depends on scale... doubly so even:

1) scale of conflict and
2) scale of minis

A good 20 minis are a fine force for skirmish but not much than an anecdote in a large battle.

In 6mm scale nothing short of hundreds will look like an army.

[Dewbakuk]

Depends on many things, the scale, the period, the game rules...

Unless you're talking about small scales such as 10mm and below I rarely consider my figures an 'army'. For example in modern conflicts and presumably sci-fi ones, an army is spread over a huge area and unless at a base you don't usually have more than a few units in one place.

For dark ages, medieval, fantasy etc, then I'd say you need over 150 figures and even then I'd assume it's just part of the larger battle.

[JollyBob]

Yup, depends on the game, really.

Personally, I have always gone with what looks good (as I don't play, just paint). I find on the rare occasions I actually paint more than one unit, I end up with a force something like you described.

I put this down to an article in a very old White Dwarf about painting a 1500 point Dark Elf army, back in the Marauder Miniatures days. I have since subconsciously used this as a reference for what constitutes a basic but adaptable force. I think the composition was 15 spearmen, 10 Witch elves, 10 crossbows, an artillery piece, 5 Cold one riders and three characters, including a wizard. That gives you in essence a block of line troops, some ranged power, assault specialists, fast attack/flanking units and some nice characterful personalities.

Its a small but flexible beginning that you can add units to as you spot a need for them in your games.

That basic combination has since been carried accross many genres for me with my Stargarte Jaffa'a and Wars of the Roses Bishop's retinue being examples I've posted on here.   

[Lowtardog]

An Army to me is 12+ units where each unit is at least 16 figures for Infantry and 12 for cavalry. So 150 figures minimum.

But then I didn't grow up with GW games where an "army" is a lot smaller..

Mike

I would say very much the same, you may frop to around a hundred if doing smaller skirmish forces but a 100 would be the minimum with distinct units etc

[Ray Rivers]

It's all terminology really. 

Forty years ago we wouldn't call a 28mm force "an Army" unless it numbered well over 200 minis. A 15mm "Army" would have as a minimum, a couple thousand.

Nowadays most folks shy away from painting hundreds and hundreds of minis and the size of "Armies" have generally fallen. I personally believe that this blurring of size has been taken place for numerous reasons, but high on the list has been the increased popularity of skirmish gaming and the use of rules such as DBA in which fewer minis represent more warriors (not to mention the most obvious reason that folks don't have the time or resources to do whole "armies" by themselves).

But as I say, overall, it boils down to terminology. I think folks with a background like mine are more comfortable with the term "force," but really, if you want to call your force an army... is it really that important?

 

[Cherno]

Enough figures so that it becomes impossible to determine their number at a quick glance.

[Messyart]

I dropped the army stuff a while back, sticking to home-brew RPG games for a couple of years, now.

But I always liked to think an "army" started at the point where you knew your models in and out.
You can control a hundred models, but not knowing a thing about them is only going to make them cannon fodder.

[DrVesuvius]

Wow everyone got real philosophical real fast over this.  "What is an army?" indeed!

In answer to the original posters actual question, assuming you're talking about typical VSF games like Valor Steel & Flesh or GASLIGHT (or FUBAR with the VSF supplement) then I'd say yeah, you're about at the size of force I'd recommend for an entertaining game.  It's enough units for you to have some supporting eachother, maybe one or two in reserves and enough that one lucky volley isn't going to decide the game.

Call it an army, field force, brigade, command or whatever you like.

Dr V

[FramFramson]

I think that you can easily split hairs. But if you want to go that route, why not just use the dictionary definition of an Army? In that case it would be:

"A military formation, superior to a corps and beneath an army group. Usually 80,000–200,000 men, formed in 2-4 Corps, formed in turn from a larger number of Divisions."



I'm being a bit pedantic for the laughs though.    

Only the most extreme nutters woud try to assemble a cohesive group of even 80,000 miniatures - even in 6mm!

I think that for most purposes, you want to field something that "feels" like a full sized army. Actual numbers may vary, but some things would be fairly fixed:

1) A fair number of main battle formations. Say at least three, but more typically four or more
2) Each formation being big enough that it doesn't just look like "two platoons" or "two squads" at a glance. So probably more than 20 figures per formation.
3) Some support combat groups, be it supply, artillery, HQ, scout/skirmish forces, demolition teams, pursuit squads, aerial units, wizards, whatever. These will normally be smaller than the main battle formations.
4) Combined arms capacity. If the force is cavalry based or infantry based, this will usually mean a number of the other type as well. (for instance, three large formations of cavalry will simply look like a large squadron). It also usually means some artillery support or possibly aerial/naval units.
5) The impression of self-sufficiency. Whether you actually have a baggage train or merely hint at one being "off-table" with things like ammo runners/powder monkeys, wagons, ambulances/stretcher teams, field HQs, caches, field hospitals, or other such items is up to you.

The basic idea is that when someone says "army" typically you think of a large, self-sufficient military group capable of carrying out a wide variety of military actions. And you want your force to give that impression at a glance when someone looks at the table. That means combined arms, support, and other aspects of a "full-sized" army. It also means numbers enough that it covers a fair amount of the table surface.

[XCIV]

Some good responses.

I put 'army' in quotes because I really meant something more like "a force sufficient to game with as a 'side' in a game."

And you're right, it depends on scale. Figure scale, mostly, to me. larger scales usually mean smaller numbers of figures to get a playable game. I like to have enough extra troops to have some variety in different games, so that I may use the Aethermarines in one game, and the Sikhs in the next.

I wonder if we should discuss it in terms of weight of lead rather than number of figures? I mean, with more smaller minis, or fewer larger minis, the weight of lead might be sort of like the weight of a broadside in determining the size or strength of a force. Instead of how many points, it becomes how many pounds?

[Dr. The Viking]

Haha. I wanted to write something along the lines of '2kg makes an army' when I saw the replies to this topic this morning.

Too bad I didn't

You'd have to find some way to account for plastic and too though. 

[Red Orc]

In Anglo-Saxon Law, a 'here' (army) was defined as any armed group of 30 or more.

Just thought I'd throw that in for those who think GW does small armies.

[Hat Guy]

I only need ONE figure in my army:



Not entirely appropriate for VSF I know, but it is something of a general thread.