German tanks protected ammo 1939?

[Anatoli]

Hi guys,

This is one particular issue for which I'm looking for answers. Battlefront has been very generous equipping pretty much every German tank in Flames of War: Blitzkrieg with "protected ammo". No other nation in the book has  this feature.

Does anyone know some facts about this that would support the rule? And support the rule in a 1939 setting in particular?

Somehow I feel this is tacked on to make the Germans, who are "Confident" in the rules appear better than every other nation. Doing research on German stuff in 1939 at the moment, but can't seem to find any information on ammo protection. And this is a pretty important detail that I want to get right.

[generulpoleaxe]

Ammo protection?    They put crosses were most crew stored the ammo!

[Anatoli]

That had actually slipped my mind, this was one of the things that changed between the Polish and the French campaign. The Poles used the crosses to target enemy vehicles... Somehow it would make sense to represent that fact.

[generulpoleaxe]

That had actually slipped my mind, this was one of the things that changed between the Polish and the French campaign. The Poles used the crosses to target enemy vehicles... Somehow it would make sense to represent that fact.

Towards the end of the war Allied crews were still targeting the cross as it was known as one of the best places to hit a Panzer IV (or a tiger as every allied crew seemed to think any Panzer was a tiger )
The protected ammo rule is just to beef up the German armour for FOW.

[Anatoli]

That seem to be the general consensus and I have not found any information on actual "protected ammo" in 1939 tanks. I decided to replace the "protected ammo" rule with my own take on German panzer crews being better trained and thus bail in on 3+ instead of the regular 4+ with a re-roll if they fail.

[generulpoleaxe]

That seem to be the general consensus and I have not found any information on actual "protected ammo" in 1939 tanks. I decided to replace the "protected ammo" rule with my own take on German panzer crews being better trained and thus bail in on 3+ instead of the regular 4+ with a re-roll if they fail.

Probably better giving them a save of 5+ to avoid being bailed as many crews due to the armour usually presumed it was just small arms fire.
Some crews were reported as being quite shaken when they realized afterwards their was a shell lodged in the armour!

[Zwerch mit Ohren!!!]

Well, regarding the white cross, the German troops learned quite soon, that a white cross is a good target  and bad for Camo purposes, so they put in the black Cross, so called Balkenkreuz (which is stil in use at German Bundeswehr tanks and airkraft)

But there is another quite big nation which didnt learned much till 1944 and had bright shining white stars at their tanks to make shure they got hit by a Tiger 

About Ammo protection, it could be, that german Tanks had more separated storerooms or thicker walls. For most german tanks where really new and polish ones were older interwar models.
In WWI for example the engine, ammo and crew where sitting in one room, which caused casualties even without beeing critically hit

regards
Zwerch!!!

[mondria]

ammo was not protected in German tanks most tanks had them open on the floor and sides, Pz1 and 2 had some of there ammo in magazines if you want to call that protected.
the only tanks that I can think of that had some sort of ammo protecting where the wet 76mm armed Shermans, but I can be wrong on this part

[Galland]

The value of the historical facts in this thread is totally mind blowing. Try reading what Zwerch is writing, he seems to know what he is talking about.

Spouting oppinions in a thread that is supposedly meant to clarify some sort of facts can only be regarded as counter productive and not to mention a bit silly.

[dadlamassu]

I know of no tank in 1939 that had any sort of special protection for the ammunition. 

Taking the German tanks of 1939:
PzKpfw I - 2 x machine guns, no special protection unless you count the ammo boxes!
PzKpfw II - 1 x MG and 1 x 20mm cannon again no special protection
PzKpfw III - 2 x MG and 1 x 3.7cm gun with rounds on floor, sides and turret
PzKpfw IV - 2 x MG and 1 x 7.5cm short gun with rounds on floor, sides and turret
PzKpfw NbFz V - 2 x MG, 1 x 3.7cm, 1 x 7.5cm short gun with rounds on floor, sides and turrets

I've not counted the PzKpfw 35(t) and 38(t) because they were Czech tanks and not German ones but they had rounds on floor, sides and turret.  I assume that a FoW "Rules Lawyer" would point this out.

Oddly enough the British Matilda 1 & 2, Cruisers and Light Tanks had main armament rounds on floor, sides and turrets, so did the Poles, the French - everyone really.

I've spoken with many veterans over the years.  If a tank was stationary when hit and remember most tanks had to stop to fire the crew bailed out.  If it was hit while moving the driver tended to speed up and the crew stayed on board.  None ever mentioned getting back in until the fighting and firing died down.  The great terror was burning inside a tank.

The only tank I've heard of with any special ammunition protection was the M4A3 Sherman with Wet Stowage.  This consisted of surrounding the ammunition stowage bins with a water/gylcerine mixture held in an outer hollow casing. The idea was that the water mixture would pour out over any penetration of the bins by enemy AP shot/ shell fragments thereby preventing or at least slowing ammunition fires. This modification appeared in Feb 44 on late production M4A3s.

A US Army study showed that 10 - 15% 0f wet stowage Shermans burned compared with up to 80% of dry stowage vehicles.