Help with Crusader Knights' Insignias and uniforms, please

[ErikB]

Could someone point me toward a resource on crusading knights and their uniforms?

All I can tell is that Hospitallers wore a white cross on black, Templars a red cross on white, and Teutonics wore a black cross on white.  At least, that's how they're mostly portrayed in the resources I have been able to find.

However, there seem to be plenty of examples of red hospitallers and Templars wearing black with a red cross.  I am confused.

Also, there seem to be several different Templar shield motifs, including a black 1/3 at the top with white 2/3 below, no cross, big red cross, etc.

And were the Maltese Knights of St. John the only ones to wear the Maltese Cross (like the Black Templars from GW)?

Can someone explain some of this to me?

Thanks in advance.

[vonplutz]

Ok. Firstly these rules only apply to the crusading orders and not crusaders who just wore their own coat of arms when they came down though sometimes with a cross stitched on as well.

The knights Hospitallers (also known as the Knights of St. John or the Knights of Malta) wore black monastic robes with a white cross on them up until the mid 13th century when they did away with the robes in favour of surcoats and these became red with a white cross. Later when they settled in Malta (early 16th century) the cross became a Maltese cross.

The Templars it seems wore white surcoats with a red cross but this is often debated as is the placement of the cross, sometimes central other times over the heart. The guys with black surcoats and robes with red crosses were the lower ranking non-noble born Templars who acted as serjents and foot soldiers. The priests of the Templar order also wore these robes. The shields of the Templars is also debated but most of the evidence leans towards the upper 1/3 being black and the lower 2/3 white. I personally haven't seen any with a red cross on white field but do recall one with the black white mix as well as a red cross. Though the crusading orders aren't my area of research so I may be wrong.

The Teutonic knights I sadly know very little about but mostly have seen depicted with white surcoats and black crosses for the noble members and grey surcoats with a black T for the serjents and foot soldiers. Something to keep in mind is there was also a spin off order of the Teutonic knights in the Baltic called the Livonian order. Sadly I know nothing of them besides their existence.

Hope this helped.

Could someone point me toward a resource on crusading knights and their uniforms?

All I can tell is that Hospitallers wore a white cross on black, Templars a red cross on white, and Teutonics wore a black cross on white.  At least, that's how they're mostly portrayed in the resources I have been able to find.

However, there seem to be plenty of examples of red hospitallers and Templars wearing black with a red cross.  I am confused.

Also, there seem to be several different Templar shield motifs, including a black 1/3 at the top with white 2/3 below, no cross, big red cross, etc.

And were the Maltese Knights of St. John the only ones to wear the Maltese Cross (like the Black Templars from GW)?

Can someone explain some of this to me?

Thanks in advance.

[Paul]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_order
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10304d.htm
http://mpirrello.hubpages.com/hub/Military-Orders-and-the-Crusades

[janner]

The specifics all depend on your timeframe and region.

Any idea on whether you intend to focus on Iberia, Levant or Baltic and when as yet?

Regards,

[Paul]

Forgot this one....
http://www.earlyblazon.com/

[Paul]

and this one;
http://www.medievalwarfare.info/

[ErikB]

Any idea on whether you intend to focus on Iberia, Levant or Baltic and when as yet?

Teutons and Livonians would be interesting as I'm part German and part Lithuanian (but have a very negative view of these orders on account of Sincowicz's book, "The Teutonic Knights").

But Levant has so much interesting stuff to learn about, too.

So, I guess, I am still just trying to figure it all out.

Thanks for the links and explanations, folks.

[Paul]

If you ever need flags for teutonics;
http://www.krigsspil.dk/download/download_9.html

[ErikB]

Those are incredible, Paul!  Thanks!

[Paul]

 
They are all free and you can resize them using word. There“s some more Teutonic banners, kindly created and also for free at the Grimsby Wargames society, along with some crusader flags
http://grimsbywargamessociety.webs.com/flagdownloads.htm

[ErikB]

Alright, folks, these links are wonderful, but I am not much closer to figuring out the uniforms of different ranks within the crusading orders.

Red crosses on black for the sergeants of the Templars?

And what are the reasons behind the various shield motifs within the same orders?

Thanks again.

[vonplutz]

Alright, folks, these links are wonderful, but I am not much closer to figuring out the uniforms of different ranks within the crusading orders.

Red crosses on black for the sergeants of the Templars?

And what are the reasons behind the various shield motifs within the same orders?

Thanks again.

(Disclaimer this is all based on the Levant as I know little about the Baltic and even less about the Iberian orders)

That's the issue at hand. These orders are technically monastic orders so no one is truly above the other, but since it is primarily composed of nobles who cannot be dishonoured by being placed on the same level as a footman there is a distinction between those, ie. the black robes (lower classes) versus the white (nobles). The only true "rank" these orders have are the grand masters (though one would assume that a castle ruled by an order would have an unofficial leader with no distinction visually but only more capable at command) who themselves are replaceable. If memory serves correct there is a passage in either Richard of Devizes Chronicle of Richard I or in Joinville's Life of St. Louis (sorry can't remember which) where the leader of the Hashashin demands tribute from the grand masters of the Templars and Hospitallers or they will be assassinated. They then laugh at the envoy claiming they are mere figures and their deaths wouldn't make a difference to the orders. In short there aren't really differences within the orders, their dress is primarily to indicate that they are part of the order and not just any humdrum crusader riding around the Levant.

As far as shields go it is more confusing as I do believe there is evidence of certain members using their families lay arms upon their shields (though this may just be the case of a certain grand master of the Templars). Generally speaking shields in the Middle Ages are more a personal thing where one could have anything upon them, though as the period draws on a personal coat of arms is preferred to distinguish oneself in hopes of being captured rather than killed or so spectators will know who is performing the great deeds of arms.

[janner]

Alright, folks, these links are wonderful, but I am not much closer to figuring out the uniforms of different ranks within the crusading orders.

Red crosses on black for the sergeants of the Templars?

And what are the reasons behind the various shield motifs within the same orders?

Thanks again.

When in comes to the twelfth and early thirteenth centuries, it's mostly conjecture matey. Templar serjeants wore either brown or black, but we cannot be sure if they wore habits (like the Hospitallers) or surcoats. There's evidence that Hospitaller brother sergeants wore brown, so I put my Templar brother serjeants in black (with the red Templar cross on the left breast). A number of different shield designs are depicted for both orders, but there is no evidence I am aware of an official design. For aesthetic reasons I chose to give my Templar brother knights one design whilst having more variety in the Hospitaller brother knights. In both cases my lay serjeants are more haphazard, taking whatever was handed out by the armourer.

I have a different view on monastic orders and especially military orders to vonplutz. Like non military orders, military ones had a number of ranks. As well as the usual logistic positions, military orders had such positions as Marshall and Commander, and their functions are spelled out in detail in, for example Le Regle, for the Templars. Moreover brother knights might be disciplined by losing their white mantle, hence looking to all intense and purposes as a brother serjeant. Le Regle also specifies them forming up separately for battle. So there clearly was a distinction between the brother knights and the non noble serjeants.

Regards,

[vonplutz]

When in comes to the twelfth and early thirteenth centuries, it's mostly conjecture matey. Templar serjeants wore either brown or black, but we cannot be sure if they wore habits (like the Hospitallers) or surcoats. There's evidence that Hospitaller brother sergeants wore brown, so I put my Templar brother serjeants in black (with the red Templar cross on the left breast). A number of different shield designs are depicted for both orders, but there is no evidence I am aware of an official design. For aesthetic reasons I chose to give my Templar brother knights one design whilst having more variety in the Hospitaller brother knights. In both cases my lay serjeants are more haphazard, taking whatever was handed out by the armourer.

I have a different view on monastic orders and especially military orders to vonplutz. Like non military orders, military ones had a number of ranks. As well as the usual logistic positions, military orders had such positions as Marshall and Commander, and their functions are spelled out in detail in, for example Le Regle, for the Templars. Moreover brother knights might be disciplined by losing their white mantle, hence looking to all intense and purposes as a brother serjeant. Le Regle also specifies them forming up separately for battle. So there clearly was a distinction between the brother knights and the non noble serjeants.

Regards,

Interesting. As I mentioned before this is by no means my field of expertise but I would love to take a look at Le Regle, do you have it in translation? And I may have simplified my statement too much about ranks that of course certain men did certain tasks such as logistics but that no one was greater than the other, except the one in charge, as this was the case in a monastery (or at least was supposed to be). I did not know this was not the case with the Templar.

[janner]

Sure, I have the Upton Ward translation, which has Matt Bennett's great article on medieval cavalry charges in the back - printed by Boydell, 1992. It includes the Primitive Rule as well as later developments. Of particular note here is the section on Hierarchical Statutues c.1165.

However, I do not believe some other monastic, as opposed to Mendicant, orders were any less hierarchical. As you probably know, the Templar Rule was based on the Cistercian Rule and it distinguished between brother knights and serjeants from the get go. Whilst the Rule of St. Benedict intended a flat structure and not impose a supra-communal hierarchy, this does not seem to match the system developed later by the Cluniacs and Cistericians.

Hope that helps and isn't too off topic