Arabs or Berbers in the Mahdist Army ?

[Volleyfire!]

I've asked this question on TMP 19th Century painting guide posts and not really had much help, so I thought I would ask the highly informed among you on here as well.
This question was floating around my head having seen the colour picture in Stuart Asquiths book from Partizan Press where an Egyptian is shown negotiating with what appear to be Mahdist troops led by an Emir on horseback, who seem to have some Egyptian troops held captive. One of the Mahdists has a distinctly Arabic/Berber/Bedouin sort of appearance. Then I went to Derby Worlds and saw the lovely Sudan game being displayed by John Grant and friends where they seemed to have some mounted Berber types armed with bows and carrying medieval shields. I completely forgot to ask them about these figures, so I thought I'd ask on here. I know the Mahdists captured Berber and so they must have had Berbers around them, and pictures seem to show figures in Berber type dress being used as native guides by the British, but no mention in any of the books I've read as far as I can remember. I thought they would add some colour and variety to a Mahdist force, so is there any proof they ever joined forces, or is it one of these cases where you can do as you like as there's no proof one way or t'other?

[John Grant]

Hi there

I ran the Fun in the Sand game at Derby and I have to admit the emphasis was on fun. I have no definite information about the use of Berber/Arab types in the Mahdist army, I wanted some more mounted chaps on camels and I haven't got them yet so I made do with some very old figures from an old Arab Conquest army of mine. I don't think they looked too out of place and I have to admit I can't find any real reason why they wouldn't have been there if they were true followers of the faith. Once I have the correct figures the ones I have will be replaced.

At the moment I'm doing a hippo vignette for the river!!!!

John

[Volleyfire!]

Thanks John, I don't think they looked out of place at all, that's partly why I was thinking of imitating you.Also thanks for taking the time to talk on the Sunday (twice!) its a shame some of the other exhibitors aren't always as welcoming. It was a great looking game, will you post a pic of the hippo when it's finished? It's those kind of things that just add that little extra to games and make them stand out from the rest I think.

[dadlamassu]

Lots of Arabs:
Nomads
The Manasir- nomads of Bedouin origin many still living a nomadic herding life style.

More settled "Nile or Riverine Arabs" originally nomadic Bedouins but fairly settled along the Nile by 1880s
Baggara 
Rizeigat,
Ta’ishi,
Beni Halba,

Darfur
Habbaniya

Kordofan
Messiria Zurug
Messiria Humur
Hawazma
Awlad Himayd

White Nile
Beni Selam

Not so many Berbers


Maybe some others too that I've forgotten!

[John Grant]

Thank you for doing the research - saves me a whole lot of effort. I wont feel so bad now about having 'Arabs' in the game.

John

[Volleyfire!]

Found an Aussie firm called Blaze Away who do some very nice looking 28mm Berber/Tuaregs including camel riders, camel train, cavalry and foot  as well as hadendowah and ansar. I think I might just invest in some camel jockeys and cavalry for a bit of colour!

[FierceKitty]

I've asked this question on TMP 19th Century painting guide posts and not really had much help, so I thought I would ask the highly informed among you on here as well.
This question was floating around my head having seen the colour picture in Stuart Asquiths book from Partizan Press where an Egyptian is shown negotiating with what appear to be Mahdist troops led by an Emir on horseback, who seem to have some Egyptian troops held captive. One of the Mahdists has a distinctly Arabic/Berber/Bedouin sort of appearance. Then I went to Derby Worlds and saw the lovely Sudan game being displayed by John Grant and friends where they seemed to have some mounted Berber types armed with bows and carrying medieval shields. I completely forgot to ask them about these figures, so I thought I'd ask on here. I know the Mahdists captured Berber and so they must have had Berbers around them, and pictures seem to show figures in Berber type dress being used as native guides by the British, but no mention in any of the books I've read as far as I can remember. I thought they would add some colour and variety to a Mahdist force, so is there any proof they ever joined forces, or is it one of these cases where you can do as you like as there's no proof one way or t'other?

The settlement Berber is close to Suakin; it's a westernised version of an Arabic name.

The Amazigh people sometimes irritated by the way Rider Haggard and Hollywood types call them Berbers are indigenous inhabitants of Algeria and Morocco, and are aware that the name Berber is an updated version of Barbari; I can understand why they don't appreciate it.

And the Lakota don't control the Indian city of Varanassi, Rome isn't in Romania, Thailand isn't part of Taiwan, and Austria and Australia have only a fondness for beer in common.

[sultanbev]

Yes, was about to add, the Nile Arabs of Berber are not the same as the Berbers of the Maghreb (Morocco, Tunis, Algiers).

There was also the thing I gather that the Mahdist was quite strict about appearance of his followers so any warriors from the Maghreb would have been persuaded to look like everyone else, and would have been armed from Mahdist stocks. So no horse archers I'm afraid.

[VonAkers]

Fierce Kitty
As an Australian I Resemble that ..!!
Cheers

[FierceKitty]

As a South Effrican, I am always proud to irritate a Strine!