Archery in the Back of Beyond

[Stavros]

Apologies if this has already been discussed in previous threads but is there any evidence that tribes such as the Buryat and Tuvans continued to use composite bows?
I've seen various photographs from our period showing tribesmen with bows and even antiquated armour but i'm pretty sure alot of these are 'posed' shots for western anthropologists etc.
Also, if allowed, do any of the current commercial rules such as Setting The East Ablaze cover the use of bows?

[twrchtrwyth]

Triumph and Tragedy do.

[cuprum]

The Buryats and Tuvans is the traditional national sport - archery. But hardly they to use a bow in the war at that time. I have never met mention of it.
Most likely, for hunting and war, they could use wick and flint musket. Certainly if they did not have modern rifles.

[argsilverson]

I think that Cuprum is correct.

However, our hobby has a lot of space for anything we like. So, If we like to have archers, then why not?

[Irishrover13]

Can't remember my sources (I am a terrible history major posting with no sources) but I have read in several books that bows were used by Chinese resistance as recently as the Second World War during the battle of the great wall. Entire regiments were also equipped with spears due to a lack of rifles and sent to the front (With the intention of trading those weapons for rifles from dead allies or enemies)(This is from the Osprey Chinese army book, forget the number as it is at home). As for the Buryats and Tuvans mounted archers? Yah that is not much of a stretch at all, if you are used to using a bow for hunting then it is not a stretch to use what you know in combat. In addition it is easier to fire a bow from horseback then a rifle and reloading a musket or breech-loader on the gallop ( I personally have never done this but the Cree reserve near my home has a traditionalist group who do practice horse archery) .... forget about it, drawing an arrow from a quiver however is a simple process for a good rider that can control his horse with shifting of the legs.

[Stavros]

The Buryats and Tuvans is the traditional national sport - archery. But hardly they to use a bow in the war at that time. I have never met mention of it.
Most likely, for hunting and war, they could use wick and flint musket. Certainly if they did not have modern rifles.

Thought as much...I've seen some group shots of Tuvans outside their yurt and they are armed with flintlocks and what appears to be a matchlock musket.

[Viper4Dan]

My Mongol-type cavalry/bandits/Chinese auxilliaries/Russian levies/whatever, are modelled with both a bow and a rifle. In my (gaming) mind, since archery was a national sport and point of cultural pride, they might carry both. If they were hunting, why waste a bullet (which might be in short supply), when an arrow will do the job and be reusable. In battle, if they ran out of bullets (or needed a silent weapon), they went to the trusty sidearm/bow. When out on the steppe, you could run into enemies or game at any time, so why leave either weapon behind. Besides, figures having both bows and rifles look a little less civilized and more on the wild side to me.

[Stavros]

Can't remember my sources (I am a terrible history major posting with no sources) but I have read in several books that bows were used by Chinese resistance as recently as the Second World War during the battle of the great wall. Entire regiments were also equipped with spears due to a lack of rifles and sent to the front (With the intention of trading those weapons for rifles from dead allies or enemies)(This is from the Osprey Chinese army book, forget the number as it is at home).

I do remember reading about a US coastguard vessel that boarded a Chinese pirate junk in 1949...as well as a few surplus WW2 rifles, a crossbow was found along with some crude bamboo tubes filled with gunpowder!

May main reason for this enquiry was A: to make us of some of the nice Tartar and Mongol figures that Foundry make, prompted by an account of a Buryat (i think) rising in the early 1900's, raiding Russian settlements...sort of the wild east rather than the wild west!....thought it would make an interesting sideline to BoB.

[Stavros]

Besides, figures having both bows and rifles look a little less civilized and more on the wild side to me.

And just the look i was after

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Just found that nice pic of a Buryat archer (photo made at the beginning of 20th ct.)

[sukhe_bator]

I read somewhere that Ungern Sternberg's troops used bows when they rescued the Bogdo Khan from his house arrest by the Chinese in 1920. Not sure if these were Buryat Mongols or his Tibetan honour guard. The bow was not a mainstream fighting weapon but would be used where stealth was needed - ambushes, night assaults, as well as hunting.

[Irishrover13]

Speaking of bow is in war, don't forget Jack Churchhill.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill. Someone should make a mini of him.

[Stavros]

Just found that nice pic of a Buryat archer (photo made at the beginning of 20th ct.)

Cool pic, although probably posed with traditional equipment.
I remember a nice shot of two Siberian warriors in full armour made of lamellar strips of bone...turned out they were the native guides of some anthropological expedition who were given the equipment to wear...lovely armour though, apparently some was made from mammoth ivory, tons of which still exist in Russia, must try and dig the image out!

[sukhe_bator]

The Royal Armouries in Leeds have some slatted/splinted wooden Siberian armour in their reserve collection which looks like a cross between a venetian blind, a cricket pad and one of the life preserver jackets you see on old war films

[cuprum]

Wooden armor - it is something very ancient. I have met mention of such armor - but it the early medieval period and the first settlement farther north Buryats.

I have found one article which talked about military affairs of the Buryat people.

http://lhabu.newtag.ru/archives/23

 Here is information on armor (16 - 17 century):

"Weapons and armor made ​​primarily by its own, of iron, produced by the Buryats, as well as received by them through an exchange, or as a tribute. Buryat smiths were famous far outside their camps.
Buryat armor had considerable margin of safety, according to reports of the Cossacks are not always break through even a firearm. "

As you can see - in Buryats was not necessary make armor out of wood.

I will try to translate the information on the use of bows:

At the end of XVII - beginning of XVIII centuries of nomadic Central Asian gets spread firearms. Buryats, probably met with him in Russian.
Relatively common on a new kind of offensive arm is received presumably only in the XVIII century. We were preparing for an uprising in the 30 years of the XVIII century Buryat and Evenk - according to Russian authorities - "found firearms and gunpowder in a quantity exceeding that which the natives were allowed to have." The researchers noted that "Buryats rifles shoot very precisely." Firearms are gradually supersedes their bows as military and hunting weapons at the end of XIX century. The head of the Buryat genus Vandana Yumsunov in his book, written in the 70-ies of the XIX century, complaining that competitions in archery became rare, and bow and arrows disappear.