Building Retinues for WotR?

[Dilettante Gamer]

Does anyone have any sources for historical guidance on building Wars of the Roses retinues in two dimensions:

- Ratios of bills, to archers, to harnessed men at arms

- Size of retinues relative to rank and status

If it's anybody's guess, I'd be interested in what works on the tabletop from gaming experience.

What does the BLAM crue have to say?

[Damas]

The Perry boxes have a leaflet inside that answers that very question.  High ranking nobles could have a ratio of 4 archers per bill.  City levy and similar, 8 archers per bill.

As for the sizes of retinue, how long is a piece of string?  You should fit your retinue to your wallet, gaming table and opposing player(s).  I'm looking at units of 20-30 per named noble, counting mounted units as equal to two men.

[Dilettante Gamer]

The Perry boxes have a leaflet inside that answers that very question.

 

Oh, you mean the one I'm using as a bookmark in Boardman's "The Medieval Soldier in the Wars of the Roses"?

"When all else fails, read the instructions."  <insert emoticon for chagrined>
 
 

You should fit your retinue to your wallet, gaming table and opposing player(s).

To this I might add "fit your retinue to your painting speed".  I could keep pace with James.

Thanks muchly, Damas!

[OSHIROmodels]

To this I might add "fit your retinue to your painting speed".  I could keep pace with James.

It's not hard, believe me 

cheers

James

[15thpanzer]

Hello Dilettante

Glad to hear your thinking of taking the plunge into a period I think is absorbing. As far as ratios goes I think anything goes so long as the bows do not outweigh the melee boys. For a visual meets historical balance my 30 man retinues have 20 bow, 5 bill and 5 fully harnessed and my 40 men retinues have 20 bow, 10 bill and 10 fully harnessed. Each battle consists of two 40 man and two 30 man retinues (80 bow, 30 bill and 30 men at arms). That said, I was short on archers (a few more boxes on order) and wanted to crack on this morning so Trollope's 30 man retinue on the work bench have 10 of each type. Besides everyone knows painting bills is much more fun than painting bows. But, once they become part of a battle the ratio will rebalance a little. Anyway, I'm prattling on now. Look forward to seeing your retinues, whatever you decide.

Michael

[Arlequín]

There isn't a stock simple answer unfortunately, too many real variables, to which have been added the thoughts, fancies and suppositions of various historians, plus a layer or two of wargaming myth.



I'd just buy a box of Perry mounted men at arms to four boxes of their infantry and see what I ended up with after I put them together.

[max]

I do about 1-1 as it make for more interesting games, perhaps with a few more bows to bills. As for size, i've done 18-24 for the average retinue. It's not huge or historically correct, but it's enough without being too much if you get my drift.

[15thpanzer]

Sorry, should proof read. Should have said 'melee weapons  don't outweigh bows', but you knew that anyway.

[Orlock]

Ratios of bowmen to maa/Billmen varied throughout the war, but as a rule of thumb I would go with a 2:1 ratio as has been mentioned above. The size of retinues varied according to the rank of the lord/knight bringing men to the field. If you want more info the Freezywater books on the WotR are quite helpful. You can get them from the Lance and Longbow Society.