Round 2 - Cultists vs. Orcs

[Overlord]

[Captain Blood]

I love that blue Dolmot 
Very nice work Matt 

[Blue in vt]

Wow Dr. M your scene is so natural and perfectly composed.  What figures are those?

And I have to agree with the Capt. That blue on the cultists is fantastic!

Cheers,

Blue

[Dr Mathias]

Wow Dr. M your scene is so natural and perfectly composed.  What figures are those?

They're Wargames Factory orcs. The spiders lurking in the shadows are from Reaper. I think they released them as Bones now too, so they can be had on the cheap!

And I have to agree with the Capt. That blue on the cultists is fantastic!

Agree here too, that's not a color I expect to see on cultists, very nice.

[Blackwolf]

Wow! Two nice entry's,
  Matt,you make me want to buy some of those orcs,you do such a lovely job on them

[majorsmith]

love the orcs! fantastic

[Raz]

Two very nice paintjobs. Well done, guys! The blue of the cultist works really well, gives them a more sinister look than the red you see so often. The Orcs look awesome. Lots of detail, highlight and skintones are great, excellent!

[Dolmot]

Ahem...apologies for breaking the "bases of each miniature should be in full view in the main photo and not obscured by terrain, scatter, etc." rule. I thought the composition could use an altar-like stone and only afterwards I noticed it obscures a few bases. But I guarantee they're all finished in my traditional dull gravel style designed for minimal attention in any terrain.

[Dr Mathias]

Ahem...apologies for breaking the "bases of each miniature should be in full view in the main photo and not obscured by terrain, scatter, etc." rule. I thought the composition could use an altar-like stone and only afterwards I noticed it obscures a few bases. But I guarantee they're all finished in my traditional dull gravel style designed for minimal attention in any terrain.

As I understand it, the rule is that no one can use digital means to erase or clone stamp the base edge out of the image. Quite a few people were doing that in Season 5. As far as I know it's okay to set it up the way you did, there's no question about the reality of the display. I didn't even think about it at the time, but I did the same thing and have a few bases obscured  I'll have to go back through, but I think several people so far have obscured their bases with terrain or other bases.

Your scene looks great, I wouldn't change a thing.

[Captain Blood]

Obscuring bases with scenery or scenic materials is perfectly acceptable and entirely up to you. It was the digital 'blending' of figures bases into terrain that was ruled out of court after earlier LPLs.

[Dolmot]

This is getting off topic, but the sentence I quoted (about "obscured by terrain" etc.) is directly from the rules topic, "entries" section. Maybe it should be either deleted or enforced?

[Dr Mathias]

This is getting off topic, but the sentence I quoted (about "obscured by terrain" etc.) is directly from the rules topic, "entries" section. Maybe it should be either deleted or enforced?

Potentially off topic but I think it's worth talking about.
I found the sentence you were referring to, I missed it last time I read through the rules.

Now, in your photo, I'd say that strictly speaking we can see that one base is maybe 20% covered, one is maybe 40%, one is maybe 80%. However, I think anyone who sees your photo knows what the bases look like in reality. We know that you didn't hide them behind terrain because they weren't well done, or because they are unfinished, or because you wanted to fuse them in the scene and create a fictional image. I don't think there was 'obfuscation' in a literal sense, where you are intentionally passing something off that isn't reality.

In contrast, take a look at this entry:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=28147.0

In the Masai scene, we don't really see the 'truth' of the figures, the bases are digitally blended into the terrain. It looks like a museum diorama, but I'm 100% sure the figures are based individually. In Frank's case, its not due to laziness, clearly, but rather a desire to fuse the scene into a beautifully unified view. His scenes 'look like paintings' as one observer put it, and it's largely because he was digitally blending bases (as described on the Perry site at one point). We don't know if these figures are part of a permanent diorama, or if they're mulit-based, or single based. I'm not sure it matters anyway, because we can enter five figures on one base anyway. Frank was doing this on almost every entry. I love his scenes, they're great, and the guy knows how to paint. He wasn't taking shortcuts that we know of, I'm certain his bases were finished and painted prior to the photoshoot- but, maybe the organizers thought it was an unfair advantage. I believe that the base blend technique was not prohibited last season, and maybe last year too?

There was a LOT of Photoshop in Season 5. Heck, that year I digitally inserted one or two cloud filled skies taken from a large panting I did, others I simply put the oil painting behind the scene. I bet most of you wouldn't know which ones had the painted backdrop, and which had the digitally inserted painted backdrop. So many people did it that it was hardly noteworthy.

Who knows if digital blending makes that much of a difference when it comes to voting. I am going to guess that the people that have the technical skill to convincingly Photoshop bases in a scene are also excellent technical painters and don't need to do it anyway. Photoshop is just a tool. I suspect digitally blended bases tip the scale in a tie-breaker, just like having a large pool of terrain does, or a nice camera, or lights, or about a million other things.

I guess the point is that enough people didn't like the digital trickery that was going on (I lean toward less digital manipulation myself) and so the rule is there. At some point, someone must have not had time to finish their bases and covered them up with flock or sand or dirt. Last year all my shots had a plain blue poster board in the back, and they look fine, so a photoshopped background wasn't necessary for me after all. It has saved me a lot of time! I think the obvious use of digital manipulation was prohibited because of a fear of what it doesn't show- that colors in a scene could be altered, chipped paint fixed, text on a painted flag 'touched up'... if one thing is manipulated, like based or skies, maybe other things are manipulated too? I think we can all agree that ultimately we're here to see the quality of the painting.

I'm sure people thought I was possibly breaking the 'comic book' rule last season when I was using a border to visually separate images. The rule was intended to keep people from writing narratives and using text to explain the image, and keep flashy digital effects and 'bling' out. To me, a border isn't anything other than sensible layout, nothing flashy or hard to do, but I asked for clarification before the season was underway just to be sure. My first attempts at doing borders were pretty heavy handed, I've since realized that a simple 1 or 2 pixel line is all that's needed, and gives more room for miniatures

If the rule next year is "no terrain" I'll be happy to participate, in fact it would make things easier on most of us but it would be even more disadvantageous for everyone without a lightbox.

I'm actually glad you brought it up Dolmot, and agree if it's a rule, it's a rule. I don't think you broke the rule though, at least in spirit.

[Overlord]

This is getting off topic, but the sentence I quoted (about "obscured by terrain" etc.) is directly from the rules topic, "entries" section. Maybe it should be either deleted or enforced?

I'm actually glad you brought it up Dolmot, and agree if it's a rule, it's a rule. I don't think you broke the rule though, at least in spirit.

You are correct in that the original intent regarding bases was to avoid the photoshopping of some previous contests.  Having bases in view was a minor amendment to the rules this year, but I didn't draw particular attention to it, so I can understand that not everyone may have realised.  It was introduced purely so that it was obvious whether the miniatures were on finished bases rather than, for example, covered by loose flock or hidden behind terrain.  It hasn't been an issue so far and it is clear in your photo Dolmot that the bases are finished, even though some are only partially in view.  I do not wish to be unduly hash on your entry or any other, and agree with Dr Mathias that it is within the spirit of the rules. 

Regarding future LPL; I personally would hate to see miniatures on a plain background.  The composition of numerous entries over the years would be much poorer without the inventive use of scenery by contestants.