I am looking for Korean War in 28

[commissarmoody]

Also who do you think i should do as there opposition first? DROK or PLA?
My plane is ambitious and will take a bit to complete, But if the idea picks up, I will also think about doing a winter range also.

[Arlequín]

'Summer' style would suit me nicely, so good call! Ridgway style caps are a must too!  

In theory, the M1 Carbine was the Squad Leader's weapon, with each team being loaded out with a BAR and the rest with Garands. M3 'Grease Guns' were 'limited standard' and Thompsons 'substitute standard', but found their way into the hands of Officers and NCOs, as these things do. Some officers acquired M1 Carbines too, as their pistols made them obvious targets.

Both Air-cooled and Water-Cooled tripod-mounted Brownings were the platoon and company machine guns, as well as some of the M1919A6 'light machine gun' variants with bipods in the former. 57mm & 75mm Recoilless rifles equipped anti-tank units, while M20 Bazookas were issued to the infantry companies and other units, in the same way as WW2, so pretty much every rifle platoon and headquarters unit had one available. I'm not sure when the switch from 60mm to 81mm mortars in the rifle companies happened, but at some point it did.

Other than very subtle differences though, the US Army infantry in Korea, was essentially organised the same way as that which saw the end of WW2. Some different vehicles here and there, but otherwise identical.

For opponents, I would personally go for the DPRK first, as they were better equipped and trained than the Chinese and somewhat smarter dressed too initially. Having said that, the Chinese are more commonly seen as the archetypical 'Communist' opponents. In the later war period, I don't think there was much difference between them though to be honest, other than a different style of soft cap... I could be wrong however.  

It's a brave step to take and I hope there is sufficient interest out there. I'm up for it, but I'm noted for being way off-field in my interests and like Carlos, I'm very choosy with regard to sculptors.

If I was planning on commissioning a range, I would be tempted to look at the early part of the Vietnam War and to possibly fill the gap of there being no ARVN, or much in the way of early US troops or advisors in 28mm... but that's just me.



*Edited* - The M1 Carbine was supposed to be the Squad Leader's weapon, not the Fire Team Leader's weapon... most FTLs had Garands 'officially'.

[commissarmoody]

'Summer' style would suit me nicely, so good call! Ridgway style caps are a must too!  

It's a brave step to take and I hope there is sufficient interest out there. I'm up for it, but I'm noted for being way off-field in my interests and like Carlos, I'm very choosy with regard to sculptors.

If I was planning on commissioning a range, I would be tempted to look at the early part of the Vietnam War and to possibly fill the gap of there being no ARVN, or much in the way of early US troops or advisors in 28mm... but that's just me.

First: That is why I am thinking multi-heads, just need to figure out weather it would be cost effective. So M-1 steel pots, M-1 with canvas covers, Ridgway caps, and the winter pile caps. Also by summer, I am thinking Hollywood style, Greggory Peck in "Pork chop hill" With body armor. (trying to make them useful for 50s style alien invasion games, and cold war gone hot.)
Would that style be to far off the mark for what the troops looked like that time?

Second:  Yeah i like none popular conflicts also. And I still have not hit up any artiest/scuplters. I just started drawing up ideas yesterday while at work. Suggestions will be appreciated. I am currently a Paul hicks fan boy after seeing the Indo-China range. Any one along his vain or better might do the trick. If not to pricy that is.

third: If my Korean (Coldest War Range) Picks up, I was actually thinking of using Dominican and and early war Vietnam US troops as my next goal. That Range will be my "Fire In Paradise" range, Cuba, Bay of Pigs, Dominican. I don't want to get ahead of myself. As I said i just started writing ever thing down the other day. Still need to figure out how I am going to pay for it, let alone if there is any interest aside the 3 of us.

So I am guessing that the standard US platoon's TO&E.
LT (45., M1 carbine)
Platoon Sergent (45, M1 carbine or sub machine gun)
RTO (M1 or M1 carbine)
Medic (45. maybe M1 Carbine)

three line squads.

Squad Leader Sargent (M1, M1 carbine, sub machine gun)
 
2 sections per a squad

Section leader Corporal (M1, M1 Carbine)
 2 Riflemen (M1)
 1 BAR       (BAR)

Or is it only one Sargent one corporal and one BAR and 6 rifleman per a squad?
Were Rifle grenades still used?
And the weapons squad at least from my research had one M1919A6 'light machine gun',  and a M2D Bazooka.
And the company's weapons platoon  had 3, 57mm recoilless rifles and three 60mm mortars.

And I also am leaning towards the DPRK, can mix PPSH's, SKS and Mosin-Nagants in the line. Still need to do some more research on there TO&E

[Arlequín]

A lot of the organisational stuff you can find on my blog. It's not 100%, but it's a close as I have been able to get it. At the very least it will save me re-hashing it all here and will give you a starting point that builds on what I've already done.



There are also quite a few old field manuals about online from the 50s and 60s, which give the 'on paper' allocations at least.

For example here's The Infantry Regiment one from 1950. Details are buried in there, but you have to fish them out from all the double-speak. You do get to find out just exactly what all those REMFs were supposed to be doing as a by-product though, so it's not all time wasted.

There are a few more dotted around here too. I used to have links to all the important ones, but I don't know where that went.

Maybe it's just me, but I find them quite addictive. 

As for the figures, your plans sound fine to me. I think you have covered the main bases as regards headgear. I'm not so sure on the body armour personally, as it cuts out use of the figures before 1953 in the main. Body armour, like Winter gear, might be better saved for future release imo.

I think I would go for just a straight figure at first, with a choice of heads... they would even pass as WW2 US Infantry in the M1943 uniform (which they pretty much were). As the old Bolt Action US Infantry appear to have disappeared, there is nothing like them out there at present.

I doubt I'm unique, but I tend to think of appearance in terms of movies, so a figure that looks 'Pork Chop Hill' or 'MASH' is more likely to appeal than one actually based on a Time Life photo. Having said that there are a lot of inspirational photos out there which match my imagined reality too.

A basic US Infantry range covers all of your bases too, they can be used from 1944 to 1962 (when the M14 actually became more common than the M1), so the classic Sci-Fi angle is covered, you could even re-do G.I. Blues if the fancy took you! 

The difficult choice is where to start. If you go for field jackets, that cuts out 'tropical' use. If you go for OD Shirts, that cuts out more 'temperate' options, but fits the 'movie' look. Winter parkas are obviously the most limiting.

Focus is also important, there are a few ranges out there which have faltered because they didn't sell, but the reason they didn't sell was because they were incomplete. If I'm going to invest in a range, I want to be able to make a unit in one go, not wait for months between releases. Having future plans is fine, but concentrate on what will be your first unit, rather than a range of units.

Red Star did this spot on with their French for me, they released a whole set of packs, which allowed you to buy everything needed for a platoon... which is pretty much all anyone is likely to buy in 28mm. Okay, I might have been tempted to have maybe two more packs of standard infantry if it had been me, so as to give a little variation in the squads, but as it is, they did it right to my mind.   

I think you pay for what you get as regards sculptors. I have my favourites and don't tend to buy outside of them and when you're spending a couple of quid/dollars on each figure, you expect quality to match the outlay. A good sculptor is the least thing you can scrimp on. For this period it would have to be Paul Hicks or Kosta Heristanidis for me... but there's always room for a few more of the same standard.

As test of this, take Mongrel Miniatures as an example. When did you last see an advert for them? Yet the figures sell faster than the owner can supply his outlet and they can never stock a full range at any one time. While this is partly down to poor supply on the part of the owner, the range is how old now? You can't even say that the ranges are currently 'hot' like Afghanistan or other contemporary conflicts... yet they sell.

The point is that a good sculptor will sell a period on the basis of the figures produced for it. How many posts do you see by folk asking about a period on here, as they have actually no idea what it is they have bought figures for?

[commissarmoody]

Thanks, I will check it out when I get off work.
I was thinking of the body army option becase they were all fully kited out as such in the movie "pork chop hill". But I see your point on limiting them to 10 year period. But they sure do look badass. 

I also just read that apparently "Mantic" games is going a 1950s-60s Mars attacks kickstarter. So might hold off to see how there monstrosity turned out. That being said I am sure what who ever I get to.sculpt my product will be superior to what ever plastics they come out with...dont even know if their stuff will be in 28.

Any ways the plan as of the moment is to make a platoon and company support for both the US and DROK forcesfrom the get go. Then work on to winter, battalion and then PLA and Commen Wealth to complete the range.

[carlos marighela]

Wot that other bloke sed.

Fatigues, unadorned pot, combat boots. Not only will you be able to do Korea but as you have correctly divined, there's almost certainly a market for 1950s Hollywood. The Day the Earth Stood Still et al. Beyond that, more than half the armies in the Western Hemisphere were dressed in this fashion up to the 1970s and beyond. You could use figures, identically clad and equipped from Batista's army battling Fidel Castro and friends through to the Turkish invasion of Cyprus. They'd make useful proxies for South Vietnamese (albeit tall ones), Indonesians in Borneo or Japanese battling Godzilla etc, etc, etc.

Flak jackets and covered helmets. Well those could be done as a variant once the initial dollies are made. Slightly less useful about the only thing I can think of beyond Korea is the first, rather less tragic, American intervention in Lebanon in 1958 and even there most photos show the Marines sans flak jackets. Of course if you went for a variation and added M-14s, they'd be useful through to the mid 1960s in Vietnam.

An idea you may wish to ponder is producing separate ammo pouches, water bottles etc. I know there is a certain resistance to having to glue bits to minis, as most of us are so cack-handed but there is some utility to the idea. Kosta produced some extra webbing bits for his modern French and I think it's a bloody good idea, a sort of plug 'n' play. You could produce the basic web pouches in strips to add to a figure or the BAR pouches, SMG pouches etc. For those figures armed with M-14 you just add the appropriate M-1956 pouches. This would work well if you had a smallish range of basic poses with weapons options. Any figures in flak jacket have the webbing straps covered anyway.

Alternately there's the going the whole hog swappit/ Timpo toys thing, where you produce separate torsos, heads and legs. Eureka did this with their SWAT range. Personally I think it's an undervalued concept. If executed well it gives you a lot of options in terms of posing and equipment and is conceptually no different from separate head variants.

Anyway, get a good sculptor and go the basic Elvis in the Army route and I'll happily buy a couple of platoons, they would make perfect Guatemalans circa 1972.

[commissarmoody]

Totally what I was thinking with going the Korean war figs. At most maybe a few separate heads to make them more appropriate for other regains. (Sombreros for south/central America, and big mustachios for the Turks  )
Now I do remember seeing pics of some  Central American troops in flack vests in an old osprey book, but i think they were a mounted mechanized unit. Which is honestly, how i would see it being used if the war ever went hot in Europe daring the 50s early 60s. So I will have them! 
 
Maybe the second batch of Americans after I get the US and North Koreans done.

I actually really like that idea about having a few spare ammo pouches, canteens etc. It will allow folks to personals there mins just a bit more. But I am not completely sold on the whole modular min rout yet. If I did that, might as well go plastics. (of course if that was an option would folks go for it?)

[carlos marighela]

I'm Catholic in my tastes, if not my religious affiliation so I'll happily buy plastic but I hear the start up costs are prohibitive. Then again judging by the figures being bandied around for some of the online crowd funding projects, so popular of late, it would appear that sculpting figures in any medium has become horrendously expensive.  

Before it was given stiffening to doll it up, the field/patrol cap was a fairly functional and good looking bit of kit and widely copied. I've seen photos of Indonesians, Cubans, Bolivians, Dutch etc all wearing something similar.

Try and avoid labelling the range as Elvis in the Army. Not only will you have to contend with Priscilla, Lisa Marie and the estates of the late Michael Jackson and possibly Col. Parker but you'll run into trouble marketing them on TMP. Elvis' activities in Germany took place before the notion of a 'registered sex offender' was even thought of so I believe it's viewed as a golden age over there. It's bound to spark furious debate.  

Really looking forward to this range.

[Arlequín]

Well it won't be cheap... and plastics even less so, you might have to sell a kidney, or even two. 

Good point about flak vests being modelled over the previous dollies without them though... that has to be a cost saving straight off.

The actual 'Ridgeway' cap was never actually a standardised item, it was just 'preferred', as it never lost its shape, or appeared 'slovenly', unlike the M1951 Patrol Cap, which did... after first wash in fact. The difference is that the issue cap 'domed' on the crown, even with cardboard stiffeners inserted, while the Ridgeway was flat, like a good haircut. The Ridgeway was also private purchase, so I wouldn't expect to see it in the field on anyone below Colonel, or Elvis, and it wasn't common until 1953 in any case.

The field cap in all its myriad mis-shapes would be the one seen out in the field... and, as Carlos suggests, by almost every other country on the Marshall Plan or MAP, as well as, more famously, Private Doberman and some of the other characters on the Phil Silvers Show.

I have no idea what obvious differences there would be in 28mm between US Marines and US Army... other than the 'Gomer Pyle' Cap, but I'm guessing not much. I know their uniform initially was the same as WW2, including the spats, but subsequently they too went to combat boots. Possibly then, the initial figures could be used for them too.

I gather that the 'Mars Attacks' range has a possibility of a 1990s theme (as per the comics), despite the original cards being from 1962. Scale is a closely guarded secret as well. I say secret, but I don't think they have actually decided yet to be honest.

If you're really serious about this, it might be worth buttering-up Brent at Company B (I hope to God that doesn't have a different meaning in the USA), as he likes him some US vehicles and might get to work on the odd 'Korean War' specific vehicle, to complement the ones that could already be used from his range.

But anyway... so far, so good and I'm in for at least one platoon's worth, possibly more. 

[Bergil]

I have a personal interest in the Korean war, and would like to sculpt for such a range.

Whilst in hospital after being attacked a few year ago now, I was bedded next to an older gentleman who had served in Korea, he told me about his war stories which were rather exciting and educated me a little about he war. After getting home I've since looked it up, it's history and innovations.

So yeah, would love to give such a project a go. Not sure I would want to cover every possible aspect though. I'm no way near as button countery as many of you guys are 

[Arlequín]

Button counting's not a bad thing... but it can define a miniature, or range of miniatures, a little too far sometimes, granted.  

I'm generally more than happy to use a range which 'looks like' something other than what was originally intended... so in this case, a basic 'vanilla' range of scruffy-ish Korean War US Infantry in 'Summer' combat dress, I can use for Batista's Army, to a degree Castro's rebels, the Asaltos in the Bay of Pigs and with some weapon and head swaps here and there with other ranges, even Castro's forces at the Bay of Pigs.

Other folk will be able to come up with other variations on a theme for their particular interests I'm sure. The obvious one being the late Pacific War in WW2. Once you define them by adding, say flak vests, though, their use is then strictly limited... even by the type of vest modelled in this case, to a specific time and place. Great in a period of mass appeal like WW2, not so great in a niche period like Korea, where peripheral 'can also be used as' sales would really help.    

The point is though, that they still need to 'be' what they were intended as originally, i.e. 'Korean War US Infantry', rather than 'Men in US fatigues with US Weapons' to have credibility as a range of figures in their own right.

+1 for Button Counting here!  

[commissarmoody]

Well since I am leaning towards late war. I am think a combination and mix of the 43 and 51 uniform's. With separate heads. With helmets, helmets with covers, field caps, Ridgeway, and Pyle caps.
Maby even a few in field jackets mixed in. The late war body armor guys will ether be modified version's of the regular troopers body armor. Or a separate range based off of the movie pork chop hill. So latest and greatest kit.
So with that in mind, I think we the summer mid and late war US idea pretty well flushed out. Might hit up company B, for 50s jeep crew and some tank riders.(most likely will be off in the future after I get the first run out.
Now for the DPRK and Chinese forces.
Suggestions ideas?
I am thinking of doing a similar platoon organization and branch off from there.

[Arlequín]

You'll need some 50's Jeeps... the WW2 era Willys MB was replaced by the M38 from 1950 and it was noticeably bigger and chunkier than the previous vehicle. That's not to say that there were no MBs used in Korea, but they were in steadily declining numbers right from the start. The old Dodge WC and 2.5t trucks were also partly replaced in the same period by the M37 and M35 respectively, but to a lesser extent and somewhat later.

I'm no expert on Chinese and North Korean uniforms, but their 'Summer' uniforms look near enough identical to me, even down to the canvas and rubber boots. The caps appear different though, with the DPRK one looking similar to the US Field cap, while the Chinese one is very much the 'Mao' type. Helmets don't seem to appear in photos, but if they were worn, the DPRK would likely have had the Soviet style helmet. The DPRK had the full range of Soviet weapons (and their organisation); Mosin-Nagant Rifles, PPSh and PPS smgs, DP lmgs and so on. They even used AT Rifles.

The Chinese were somewhat more varied with their weapons, their signature weapon being their Thompson copy, along with Enfields, Springfields, Mausers, Garands and Arisakas, amongst other rifles, as well as the normal Soviet range of items. The Chinese really were a mixed bag as far as weapons went. I've seen the SKS mentioned too, but I have never seen a picture with one in the Korean War era.

Personally I would go for the same format as you plan for the Americans, with a set of packs to enable a platoon to be fielded straight off the bat, plus some light support weapons (60mm mortar, 'Maxim' mg). The DPRK were more lavishly equipped than the Chinese, if the Soviet pattern of organisation could be described as 'lavish' that is anyway.   

[Plynkes]

You'll need some 50's Jeeps... the WW2 era Willys MB was replaced by the M38 from 1950 and it was noticeably bigger and chunkier than the previous vehicle.

Can't agree with that. If anything the M38 is smaller than the MB.

Some Pakistani jeep enthusiasts. On the left Willys MB, on the right M38...




You may be thinking of the M38A1 (which is chunky). The M38A1 may or may not have made it into action in Korea (not sure) as they came out in I think 1953.

M38A1

[Arlequín]

Yep, I probably am thinking of the M38A1... and I will take your word on sizes too. However the two are at least noticeably 'different' no?




I noticed that JTFM have an Indiegogo page for the M26 Pershing up btw.

So with the exception of the fore-mentioned M38 Jeep, M37 and M35 trucks, the M46 Patton and the M19 GMC, pretty much the full range of Korean War vehicles is, or is soon to be, out there somewhere.