French colonial forces

[former user]

I understand
well, these fine tones escape me as not being french  
I was referring strictly to the recruitment of inhabitants with and without french (metroplitan) citizenshi) and the constitution that allows deploament in metropolitan areas only - I understood RCA and RIZ were formed from french citizens and were to be used in NA only, and part of the metropolitan army?

I understand marsouins and bigors were french citizens who volunteered for colonial deployment

anyway, how do colos still exist with only exterritorial regions left and no colonies, I was always wondering....

this is a bit complicated, even more so if one has to keep track through 70 years...  

[Patrice]

Yes it's not always easy to understand and to explain. It's a mixture of what is official, what is not official but very traditional, and history, and politically correct…

The "Troupes de Marine" are no longer called colonial since the 1960s, but they still unformally call themselves "colo" and they march on old "colo" songs. One of their purposes still is to send garrisons and small units to French Oversea départements - which are no longer called colonies, but still remain oversea ("Outre-Mer").

"Métro" refers to troops which should not be sent Outre-Mer …altough in fact, they can be. When I did my (then compulsory) one year service in a Bigor regiment, many years ago, professional "colo" officers were unhappy that some "métro" officers could go to Overseas garrisons; these "colo" officers considered this a breach in their privilege.

[pacofeanor]

I will probably go with the third republic as the 1870s-80's is my main area of interest overall.

Would any standards be a simple tri-colour?
 Would any metropolitan line infantry have served in Africa?

I may eventually get round to a few grits as well, for a fictional clash of empires!

During the second empire almost all metro troops made periods of one or two years in north Africa to make them "veterants" for infantry and to change theyre horse with arabian once for light cavalry only .

This system least until 90's. After 90's metro troops in metropole , XIX army corp in north africa (zouaves , algerian turco, chasseurs d'afrique and spahis, FFL), and troupes de marine (ie troupes coloniales  in 1900 to 1960) in "black africa" (marsoins, bigors and senegalaise spahis / and senegalais/malgaches/Haousa/anamites/tonkin tirailleurs )
and Indochina (with exception of one FFL regiment in indochina!)

best regards
paco
the campaign that involved metro troops were Tunisia 1881 ( 92° de ligne and another regiment)  , indochina 1886, Madagascar (a brigade with two regiments) .

[former user]

When I did my (then compulsory) one year service in a Bigor regiment, many years ago, professional "colo" officers were unhappy that some "métro" officers could go to Overseas garrisons; these "colo" officers considered this a breach in their privilege.

well, this I can at least understand a bit. What is more difficult to is how the reinstalled RCA and others work....

@pacofeanor
how was this possible after 1871?  because Algerie counted as metropolitan?

[pacofeanor]

well, this I can at least understand a bit. What is more difficult to is how the reinstalled RCA and others work....

@pacofeanor
how was this possible after 1871?  because Algerie counted as metropolitan?

in 1871 start a great fight beetween the kabylian tribes and the few troops stayed during the 1870 war in algeria. Soon after the end of the war a lot of metro regiments were sent to algeria to bring the peace back. Those regiments stayed after peace .

  The growing "white" people in algeria from 1871 allowed the creation of more regiments to take place of "real" metro troops ! in 1871, a law (Crémieux decret) make all the algerian jewish people / french citizens (and the first thing to be a french citizen is three years of military duty), and a great wawe of colonisation start with the III republic and the changing of statue of the colonie (from a military territory to a civilian one!)

with the growing of the XIX corps in Alger ( one regiment of algerian turco in 1870, 7 in 1890-1910 , 9 in 1914 , 4 regiments of FFL instead of one in 70 etc ... Those regiments where a mix beetween indigena troops and  white people from algeria .

regiment after regiments all metro troops left algeria before 1890.

best regards
paco

[former user]

here is a question from me - the french artillery before 1914 would have worn black pants (or so I recall), was this the same for bigors/colo artillery and later FFL artillery, at least for full dress?

[pacofeanor]

french artillery wore dark blue pants with two red stripes before 1914.

In the same regiment ther were foot and horse artillery (both with horses!!) foot artillery mes wore pants with leather gaiters like infantry, and horse artillery mes wore cavalry pantaloons (same color than foot) with black tall gaiters.

It was the same for colonial (artillerie de marine) . with a red grenade on collar instead of regimental number,and on the front of kepi when worn or a brass grenade on pith helmet.

 FFL artillery was not real artillery but infantrymen with big guns to support their regiments! they wore their regiment uniform with special badge on left arm ( a montain gun)

best regards
paco

[former user]

THX
now I am irritated, because Osprey MAA 286 says colos had blue grey pants....
never mind, I know what I wanted to know, THX again
no special pants for FFL 

[pacofeanor]

infantry had blue gray trousers (with one red stripes , not artillery !

bes tregards
paco

[former user]

another not necessarily colonial question, but french anyway

I was wondering if - disregarding the rifles - the Black and Tan miniatures from Musketeer
http://www.musketeer-miniatures.com/store.php?r=19&rule=Historical&id=49
could be used for french WW1 or Interwar, say Chasseurs Alpins or whoever wore the large berets (with cut off ponpons of course)?

[italwars]

hello
Just acceded after a pair years to this great forum..i was'nt able to understand how to register succesfully   
my name is Pier Paolo..i'm from Rome (Italy) and my favourite sideshows are German, Italian and French colonial..strictly in 28mm and possibly (if i could find opponents) using TSATF game systhem...
i would like to show this section of Touller miniatures (documentation) wich show some interesting drawing of Bigors, Marsouins and Tirailleurs as they campaigned in AOF and AEF.. unfortunatly the line produced by Touller is 15mm which is not my cup of tea...
http://www.atoufigs.com/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=233208
I would also suggest this apparently naif French source..a "Comics""History of Coloniale" which i own and consider a great source about uniforms and potentail scenarios...in the second volume "Batisseur d'Empire" you'll find plenty of campaign uniforms of tirailleurs, white troops and ennemies (Samory, Lat Dior, Maures wariors)..i strongly suggest that pictorial source:
http://www.bedetheque.com/serie-11971-BD-Histoire-des-troupes-de-marine.html

regards
Pp

[Bryanbowdell]

Ta, a couple of nice links, my French colonial forces (28mm) are coming along slowly but surely, if you have any more pics please share

[italwars]

hello
i would look among my papers about other sources
in the meanwhile i could suggest, for those who manage some French, this important French Edition "Edition Lavauzelle" which republish Official Histories and relevant sources on French Army Campaigns..is, more or less, the equivalent of Naval & Military Press in UK or the Battery Press in USA...the "Armées d'Outre Mer" series, firts publishes in all his integity/beauty in the Twenties reprent the Bible of French Colonial fans..the original series..not this one..had plenty of big maps in jacket..but also if this reprint (very expensive indeed) is without big maps..it still reamin an excellent source..the major tactical skirmishes and battle maps are still printed inside the book and every possible fight between natives and tirailleurs/méharistes ecc..is fully related with every detail..i strongly suggest the volumes on AOF and AEF...those on Morocco, Algeria are less interesting..while maybe in the future i'll order and discover those on Indochine and Madascar....on the same section you'll find some also some other books relatin some good Campaign Histories
the link is:

http://www.lavauzelle.com/keops/edition/articles.php?a=ED&f=RPH&sSF=023

regards


Pp

[former user]

oh THX a lot, and welcome

btw, the Perry ACW artillery is on the way

[lou passejaire]

another not necessarily colonial question, but french anyway

I was wondering if - disregarding the rifles - the Black and Tan miniatures from Musketeer
http://www.musketeer-miniatures.com/store.php?r=19&rule=Historical&id=49
could be used for french WW1 or Interwar, say Chasseurs Alpins or whoever wore the large berets (with cut off ponpons of course)?

ali askari has some nice great war chasseurs alpins
[url]http://www.askari-minis.com/webstore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21_38[ /url]