Couple of sculpting questions...

[FramFramson]

I have to admit. I'm not particularly fond of greenstuff. It's sticky without being soft and can't be easily fixed if you have "sober second thoughts" the next day, after it has cured. I can use it, but find it annoying. And I have no luck trying to smooth the bloody stuff.

I'd love a more clay-like material, perhaps a bit firmer. I've heard some European sculptors use Fimo, which I am familiar with. Does baked fimo hold up well for the casting process? Alternatively, some people seem to like procreate, but I haven't used this and have no experience using it as a sculpting material.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Svennn]

I am by no means a sculptor but I find Fimo or rather Sculpey much easier to use, especially the one that is microwaved rather than baked but this obviously has implications with metal armatures etc.  The mould maker I use has had varying results trying to press it and generally it breaks up too much.  I believe that pro sculptors have a RTV mould made to produce masters when using these kinds of putty.

I like Procreate too, sort of a half way house between the two for me. Easier to smooth and good elasticity, nicer colour to work with than green as well. I have not tried the more waxy ones that have appeared more recently.

[FramFramson]

Pardon my ignorance, but what did you mean by RTV? Something something vacuum?

[Hellbeard]

Pardon my ignorance, but what did you mean by RTV? Something something vacuum?

Room Temperature Vulcanization. That means a silicon which turns "hard" at room temperature, a process called vulcanization. Traditionally, moulds are made with silicon which vulcanizes at high temperatures which also has the effect of being high pressure - bad for brittle stuff. RTV uses a chemical reaction with an accelerant instead of heat.

[Daeothar]

For me, it's ProCreate, hands down, but in the end it comes down to the type of job really...

I started out with Green Stuff like most, but unlike most, I've never been a fan. I always found it too sticky, even when using oils on the tools. And then there's the flex and memory issue which I never felt comfortable with. And of course the whole sanding/filing thing, or rather; lack thereof.

I've also tried Milliput, but that was on the other end of the spectrum; too chalky and brittle and a tendency to disintegrate when trying to sculpt it when too dry.

ProCreate sits smack in the middle of the two and once I tried it, I never looked back. Never tried Brown Stuff btw, so I can't comment on that...

All of that is when talking about miniatures. When doing terrain (or bulking out armatures for that matter), I do use the others, since finesse is not the first requirement there and they're cheaper than ProCreate. I've even used DAS air drying clay for that purpose! The surface detailing though, I usually do finish with ProCreate.

[just28mm]

Try using magic sculp - it can be easly polished, riveted, cut etc... and you can mix it with green stuff (ratio depends of you).
I also tried working with pro create - but... i dont ike it at all - in my opinion it is far more worse than GS.

[FramFramson]

Some good answers there. I'll probably give procreate a try (I'll try procreating?  )

Okay, one more question (hence the title change).

Does anyone have any decent tutorials for what techniques people use for sculpting eyes in 28mm. Seems like that would be the hardest part of all, though I have yet to try!

Haven't found a thing through Google.

[Daeothar]

I believe I once saw a short tutorial video on the Scibor website.

No idea if it's still up though...

[Donpimpom]

what about SuperSculpey Firm? I saw it in a shop and called my attention, anyone has ever test it to sculpt?
http://www.sculpey.com/products/clays/super-sculpey-firm

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

I use procreate, even though it is the woorst named product ever! I like it. I also use sculpey, which has the bonus that you dont have to cure it until you are ready. You can work a bit, cure it, then work on to. As mentioned, the problem is that it wont stand up to having moulds made for metal, so you have to make a resin "mould master" first. However, if you are going straight to resin it doesnt make any difference.

As for sculpting eyes, I would say the best thing is to study your favourtie scultors and see how they do it, and also to look at loads of pictures! Life drawing also helps, as does sculpting from life.

[Melnibonean]

I use a mix of 50/50 Greensuff/Miliput.

It is soft and easy to manipulate, sticky so it adheres to most surfaces, it can be smoothed using water and a brush (although I use vaseline and clay shapers), is a bit slower to cure so working time is a bit longer and it cures hard so it can be  filed and sanded. It also holds sharp edges better than straight GS. It has the best of both products.

The only issue is that you have to use half as much of each part (so you don't mix twice as much as you need).

Oh yes, use standard miliput not fine grade.

[Glitzer]

I prefer Magic Sculp, but that one is even less firm than greenstuff and hard to come by anyways. But it cures a lot slower, giving you more time to work with it, and it deforms less, so it's great for things with edges (and it cures to somthing like resin, not like rubber). It's also easy to smooth with water while uncured.

Eyes are hard, I usually start with a small knob and add a face later after the inner head has cured. My appoach is to put a flat blob in the place of the face, and then punch in two holes on both sides of the nose. Then I push down the area below the nose and try to leave some lips. I later build up the cheeks and add two small putty balls for eyes after the face has cured a little... it's hard to describe in words.

I think lips and facial expressions are harder than simple eyes.

I recommend you to buy some presculpted heads for your first min (or start with a mini wearing shades, like i did) and practise doing heads with any putty rests you have when you are sculpting.

[Vermis]

Gotta be careful or I'll type out a huge lecture here...

Greenstuff can be problematic, but don't give up on it completely.

For one thing, it can go 'stale' if it's kept lying around for a few months.  Then it can be stiff, full of hardened gritty bits after mixing, difficult to smooth, and might not cure properly.  I don't know if that's the case with your lot; but I'd recommend getting a fresh batch from someone who keeps their stock frozen, sometime, and do the same yourself if you don't use it up quickly.  I'm not sure about any stockists in Canada, let alone those who keep it in the freezer. (But let me know if you find any - I've got some lists to update. ) Closest I know of is Troll Forged Miniatures in the US.

On that note, the last tube I got from Heresy was lovely and fresh, and I had few probs using it on it's own.  But for ages before, I always mixed a little bit of another putty into it. In my opinion one of the best properties of greenstuff is how well it mixes with other putties; probably because it's off on the stretchy, springy end of the spectrum on it's own, while other sculpting putties have a lesser degree of 'elastic memory', better ease of smoothing and sharpening, etc.  Sometimes mixed with brownstuff (as Kev White notably does, or did. Discontinued now, sadly.) or procreate, but mostly I like mixing it with milliput, magic sculp, or apoxie sculpt.

Arbitrary classifications: elastic putties including green stuff and procreate.  Procreate has a good reputation, as you've probably gathered. It has largely the same kind of extrudable, stretchy, chewing-gum texture of GS but a lot less of that memory. A bit more user-friendly than GS, and although I don't use it it very often myself, I'd say it's a good 'beginner' putty.
Claylike putties: the different grades of milliput, magic sculp, and Aves products (e.g. apoxie sculpt). Or 'synthetic clay' as Aves puts it. So called because they've got a much more claylike, grainy/crumbly, slightly water-soluble and 'muddy' texture, and cure hard.
Milliput standard yellow-grey, as Daeothar hinted, is not user friendly. On first impressions it can be very sticky, messy, crumbly and slippery.  It does have it's strange charm though, and responds to a bit of experience. Some of the peeps who sculpt for Andrea can work wonders with it. Like Melnibonean says there are finer grades that have, well, finer textures; but sometimes that's not as much of an advantage as you might think. Simply a difference. Starting to digress though...
Magic sculp and apoxie sculpt are, IMO, similar products, but I've seen some people swear on one over the other. Both softer, finer, and waxier than milliput. Not to sound like a broken record, but more user friendly than milliput. Although IMO a little too soft and fragile for fine mini details, just after mixing.  Agree with Glitzer about everything else.

Then there's mixing all of those with greenstuff. That changes the game. Again, I agree with Melnibonean - it gives you the best of both worlds.  The softer claylike putties loosen up greenstuff's stiffness and memory, while GS's chewing-gum texture helps bind the crumblier putty together.  Sometimes, when you've got it just right, the mix just seems to go where you want it with the bare minimum of pushing and smoothing... although like everything: IMO.

People've mentioned moulding polymer clay.  I'd say, even though it'll go in an RTV mould anyway, go for some of the firmer, sturdier types.  Fimo classic; fimo puppen; super sculpey firm; sculpey premo; cernit; uro.  Other types of polymer clay can be pretty brittle - first time I ever heard of super sculpey, in a photo caption in The Art of Star Wars Episode 1, mentioned how notoriously fragile it is!  I also had recent experience of how fragile a couple of these sturdier clays can be, too.

Eyes: pretty much the same way as Glitzer.  Might be time-consuming but I try to get the eyes sockets (with surrounding brow, cheeks etc.) in shape, cured, then fill them to shape the 'bags', eyelids, what have you. Sometimes I shape eyeball and eyelids by marking a horizontal slit in a small hump, then teasing the sides apart a little.  Sometimes I place eyeballs (putty or actual tiny balls) and shape the eyelids around them.

Lastly, some links that I hope are helpful.  See the stickies here:

http://minisculpture.co.uk/index.php?board=7.0
http://minisculpture.co.uk/index.php?board=8.0

[FramFramson]

Quite a lot of very useful information here. Phew!

[Hammers]

Gotta be careful or I'll type out a huge lecture here...

I second the mixing of putties to get what you want. Get your hands on some brown stuff or similar and find a mix which suits yor purposes.

From a post I did 5 years ago:

Putty:

It depends on what I want to do. I use them for their different properties. The terms we are looking for are elasticity and plasticity.

Greenstuff, Kneadite, Tamaiya blue or green epoxy putty and the like has more 'memory' meaning a shape somewhat bounces back when pushed. This is useful when doing rounded forms and putting details on an existing bit. These putties also set slightly flexible. I've seen the terms elasticity and viscosity used in reference to this.

Miliput, brownstuff, Procreate (I have heard), Tamaiya yellow epoxy putty (my absolute favorite) have properties more akin to clay. Ridges, indents stay as they are shaped which is pretty much the definition of plasticity. You are able to sculpt points and well defined edges. They generally set hard and the drawback is that they tend to be a bit more brittle and have little 'give' in them.


As for tools I use spit and water and and like Paul never worry about the chemical effect on my genetic makeup. Whit any luck I'll be able to join the X-men soon as 'Concretehead'.