A question about Roman Optios carrying banners

[Pappa Midnight]

I have rather a nice selection of 28mm EIR Praetorians from Aventine miniatures and in the command section is an Optio carrying a Vexillum. I was under the impression that the Optio was a kind of "deputy Centurion" in charge of the rear ranks and didn't carry a banner.
Normally I'm not hugely worried about historical accuracy but I just wanted to know if this ever happened or is it just artistic licence?

Regards
PM

[Furt]

I thought it was a "staff" thingy to help keep the rear rankers in line. Something he used to "encourage" the legionnaires. Pretty sure it is not a banner though.

[Plynkes]

Well it doesn't actually say he's an Optio Centuriae. They were the guys that carried a staff and were the "Lieutenant" to the Centurion. I think there were several "Optio" (chosen) titles, for other different jobs too.

Sorry, that's all I got. I'm not familiar with the Optio Centuriae carrying a standard, either.

[Prof.Witchheimer]

You're actually right, Optio Centuriae carried Hastile not Vexillum. There are two Aventine packs providing EIR vexillum bearers:

this one is designated as vexillum bearer there:


and this one as optio:


though they're quite the same officer type as far I can see. Maybe just a mistake.  But I'm surely not an expert on this.

I think Keith from Aventine will explain that for sure soon.

[Pappa Midnight]

The one I've got is the second from the right in this pack:

He is wearing the "correct" helmet with the single feathers either side.

I'm thinking of cutting off vexillum and turning it into a hastile. As I said I'm not normally this picky ( I'm painting my Praetorians black..) but this has been bugging me.

Regards
PM

[Plynkes]

He's certainly wearing an Optio's hat. Maybe the Vexillarius has the day off. Dentist or something.

[Aventine]

Truth be told, I don't know the answer, I thought Adam had just given the standard bearer a fancy hat and did not mean it to be the "optio" . I will speak to Adam tomorrow to see his view on the various standard bearers he has done with the plumed/crested helmets.

Cheers
Keith
Aventine

[Pappa Midnight]

Thanks Keith. As I said I'm not normally this picky and feel a little bad bringing this up, especially as I think the Aventine range are IMHO THE best EIR miniatures I have seen!

Regards
PM

[Prof.Witchheimer]

I think the Aventine range are IMHO THE best EIR miniatures I have seen!

seconded!

Pappa, are we going to see some painted EIR soon? Would make me happy, really love your approach and your painting style!

[Aventine]

Gents
PM

Just off the phone with Adam, he would say that there isn't any real evidence that optios wore a particular version of a fancy helmet as part of a uniform approach within the whole army as there are lots of differing depictions of them in all sorts of headgear.

As always we want to keep our friends happy and will supply any of the heads as a replacement if you desire, just let me know by email. For anyone who has a desire for a head change when ordering, just add a note and I will sort the change at POS.

While I am here I might as well add that we are hoping to have some of the cavalry ready this week, temperatures have cooled and the new moulds have arrived.

Cheers

keith

[Mad Doc Morris]

Just off the phone with Adam, he would say that there isn't any real evidence that optios wore a particular version of a fancy helmet as part of a uniform approach within the whole army as there are lots of differing depictions of them in all sorts of headgear.

Amen to that…

While I am here I might as well add that we are hoping to have some of the cavalry ready this week, temperatures have cooled and the new moulds have arrived.

And a big Yay for that!

[Prof.Witchheimer]

As always we want to keep our friends happy and will supply any of the heads as a replacement if you desire, just let me know by email. For anyone who has a desire for a head change when ordering, just add a note and I will sort the change at POS.

Top notch service as always, Keith.

[Paul]

Vexillum carried by the Vexillarius, the optio (Option - chosenman ) was the guy at the rear, the enforcer for the Centurion.
The only Optio that carried a Standard would have benn the optio draconarius...late Roman army.

[Aventine]

Hi Paul
The only question still remaining is did all optios wear the crested/feathered helmets and did all vexillarius only wear a plain helmet, who knows for sure, anyway we have covered the option to do them as you please.

Cheers

Keith

[Paul]

The signifer..they wore an animal Skin over thier helmets (as on trajan´s column)
which also Shows a vexillifier with no helmet.

But wouldn´t the vexillifier wear Skins as well ? I mean, the Vexillifier would have an important role if  a unit was put under the vexillium.

The helmet worn by the optio ..as far as I have found, there´s only one contemporary Image of an optio on a relief next to a centurion, and they both have no helmets.  They could be depicted on Parade but then why wouldn´t they be wearing thier full clobber?.

Could it be the sideways crest is an Invention by the Ermin street guard? There´s no contemporary descriptions, written or whatever of optios.

As you say..who knows for sure. When I was collecting Roman figs years back I re-searched and re-searched but found nothing definate...