Coxial Weapons: Fire Simultaneously with Primary Weapon?

[AngusPodgorny1969]

The BMP-3 has a lot of weapons in its turret: at 100mm low pressure gun, a gun-launched ATGM, a coaxial 30mm autocannon, and a coaxial machinegun.

For wargame purposes which of these weapons should be allowed to fire within the same phase/turn/action/etc.?

I can see an argument AGAINST allowing the gun, ATGM, and autocannon being fired in the same phase/turn/whatever.  These all act like "primary weapons" in some ways.

But should the coaxial MG be allowed to fired in the same phase/turn/action as one of these other weapons?

[Brummie]

I don't know the specifics for every vehicle, but I believe the Coaxial weapon can only be fired separately and the Gunner switches between the two weapons, I think that's generally standard.

[Mathyoo]

I wouldn't dare put my arm in fire for it, but I think modern tanks (and I assume BMP 3 could be put in the same box) have controls that allow the gunner to switch between co-ax MG and main gun by a press of a button.
So, while you wouldn't use them both together, I think in game terms it comes down to balance it creates. It should be possible to switch between MG and main weaponry (so either 30mm or 100mm/ATGM) fast enough to use them both in the same turn. But you could also argue it isn't, if you know what I mean. I guess it comes down to you. Considering its co-ax, perhaps limit its use to the same target as the main weapon - it's a decent compromise.

[Conquistador]

Generic D10 Answer.

Rapidly switching targeting on same target (softskin vehicle)? -1, -2 to hit.

Changing targets (APC, infantry)?  -2, -4 to hit.

Generic D6 [I dislike D6 limited probability range] Answer.

Rapidly switching targeting on same target (same softskin vehicle)? -1, -1 to hit.

Changing targets (APC, infantry)?  -2, -3 to hit.

Depends on what you want out of the rules and if the rules are "X seconds per turn" type.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Arlequín]

The short answer for me, is that if the gunner controls all of the weapons systems, it is one weapon system at a time.

The gunner generally has a very limited view of what is going on (perhaps a 22 degree arc through his sight and no peripheral vision). He relies on his commander to tell him what he is to shoot at and where it is and then has to rotate the turret or weapon and identify the target, switch his weapon selector (or ammunition selector in some vehicles) to what was ordered, all before firing.

Even if he happens to spot a target his commander hasn't identified, he has to ask to fire, just in case the commander has spotted something more threatening he wishes to shoot at, or some other reason not to (mis-identification perhaps?).

In real terms, a vehicle's weapons can usually be reloaded faster than it can acquire targets to shoot at, it's the interaction between commander, gunner and loader that slows the whole process down.

[Brummie]

On another note, it really does depend on what the guy in the Tank is shooting at, if he just has infantry in front of it then it may well be just as well to use the Coaxial MG (unless they are behind something) as opposed to the main gun, obviously with tanks its the other way around. And unless rules state otherwise, if your only allowed to shoot at one target per turn with that vehicle, I'm not sure as it would matter much. Unless of course you factor in different types of Coaxial; some tanks have a HMG on the barrel of the main gun, AND a LMG Coaxial both being able to be operated by the gunner I believe, with the HMG able to take on practically anything bar heavy armour.

[AngusPodgorny1969]

The short answer for me, is that if the gunner controls all of the weapons systems, it is one weapon system at a time.

That's my feeling too for the reasons you cite.  And for game purposes it both speeds things up (fewer weapons fired in a given instance) and makes for interesting choices (should I fire the coax MG or 120mm gun?).

For our home grown rules I very carefully created statistical/situational incentives so that even with the BMP-3 there are "best choices" to be made for each weapon mounted in the turret based on the nature of the target (eg infantry in the open are best engaged by the coax MG, MBTs at extreme range are best engaged with the ATGM, etc.)  I was just curious if people thought one should be able to fire all or certain weapons together.  Different games take very different approaches to the issue and there doesn't seem to be a true consensus on the issue.

[Arlequín]

While I think on... for those vehicles which do mount ATGWs, the gunner is also occupied when firing these until they hit the target, as most of them are wire-guided. While in real terms this isn't a long time, in battlefield terms it seems like forever at long range and certainly long enough for the quick-witted to start trying to put your aim off.