Battle of Komarów 1920

[Hammers]

Here's a piece of BoB worthy of it's salt! I came across it as I was going down a web path looking for information on cavalry lances for another thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Komar%C3%B3w

Apparently it was the largest and last cavalry charge he world has seen where both sides used cavalry in its true role.

Now, who makes Polish cavalry fit for such a scenario?

[Lt. Hazel]

Yes, Polish Cavalary and Tschankas would be necessary..you´ll have to convert them from Copplestones I think 

[Aaron]

Don't BAM make WW2 Polish cavalry? I could be wrong, but I believe the uniform would be fairly close to the 1920 one.

[carlos marighela]

Don't BAM make WW2 Polish cavalry? I could be wrong, but I believe the uniform would be fairly close to the 1920 one.

Been looking at this myself. Near as I can tell all you need do is turn the square topped Czapska of the the BAM figures back into a round crowned cap. The new pack offers all three in cap. On the same line of thought BTD's Poles in French uniform and the field gun would be ideal for Haller's Blue Army.

[koz10]

I don't think WWII uniforms will do. There was a mix of uniforms at this time. I agree that French WWI with czapkas would work for Haller's troops - for infantry and cavalry.

[Mark Plant]

The infantry at Komarów were Haller's, the cavalry were not.

I've never got to the bottom of exactly how all the six Polish regiments dressed, but finding relevant figures is no particular problem. WWI Russians, WWI Austrians and WWI Germans will do, although some head surgery might be needed. No need to worry about square topped caps though, as round caps were far more common. (Judging by re-enactors, side-caps might be the real wear.)

Tachankas are a much bigger issue.

The WWI and WWII Polish cavalry uniforms aren't hugely different, but very few men wore the official uniform in 1920. It does give you a good source of senior officers though, since they did wear the proper uniform quite often.

Incidentally, Komarów was not the last great cavalry battle in history, no matter how often Poles tell you it is. Nor was it the first great cavalry battle since 1813.

[carlos marighela]

Well if you can live with it being a bit small (basing issue IMO) then Eureka has a perfectly acceptable tachanka.

Incidentally, Komarów was not the last great cavalry battle in history, no matter how often Poles tell you it is. Nor was it the first great cavalry battle since 1813.

Yes, along with the oft repeated 'we saved Western Europe from Communism', which is purely speculative. Personally I've always thought that should  the Poles have succumbed the revolution wouldn't have proceeded much further west. The failure of the Spartacists in Germany and the crushing of Bela Kun in Hungary would appear to suggest that enthusiasm for the venture wasn't quite as popular as some would have it. Then there is the considerable antipathy the  British and French governments felt for Bolshevism and had already demonstrated. It's unlikely that a few thousand horsemen under Budyonny or Gai would have caused the collapse of the west, particularly at the end of already attenuated supply routes. I have little doubt that they would have come a cropper against the French, the British or even the Reichswehr .

It's a function of Polish mythology that they fulfilled the role of the Christian bastion against the modern day hordes of Genghis Khan, not sure it bears too close an examination.

[Adam]

Incidentally, Komarów was not the last great cavalry battle in history, no matter how often Poles tell you it is. Nor was it the first great cavalry battle since 1813.

What was or were the last great cavalry battles? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested.

[Mark Plant]

What was or were the last great cavalry battles? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested.

It partly depends on how you define the terms “cavalry battle”, but Jaroslawice (1914) had more cavalry involved and has a much better claim to “biggest cavalry battle … since 1813”. There may have been more battles at the start of WWI, but it's outside my scope.

A huge number of cavalry clashed at Mars-la-Tour as well, although admittedly mixed up in an all-arms battle. (Not that there weren't infantry around Komarów.)

Other battles of the Russian Civil War, such as Egorlikskaia (February 1920) when Budenny took on the Kuban Army were larger than Komarów and had no infantry involved at all.

Wrangel’s cavalry was to meet the Soviets’ 2nd Horse Army in the next few months after Komarów in clashes that were bigger.

Edit: as a wargamer the important thing is not "last" or "greatest" but that the Soviet-White campaigns in south Russia were far more cavalry oriented, and particularly cavalry versus cavalry. The Polish cavalry tried to avoid Budenny in frontal combat for the most part, since they were so hugely outnumbered. They concentrated on harassing his flanks and slaughtering his infantry. It was the Polish infantry who really dealt to Budenny.

Gai Khan led a whole cavalry corps through northern Poland in 1920 and seems to never had a cavalry versus cavalry clash of any size.

[Adam]

Thanks for the fast answer, Mark. I'd never bought into the 'biggest since 1813' claim but I never realised that there were larger cavalry battles that occured afterwards in southern Russia.

[Mark Plant]

  The reason the answer is so fast is that I researched it in order to correct Wikipedia. But every time I do so some Pole (I assume it's a Pole) comes along and changes it back again!

[carlos marighela]

Clearly it's a battle for Pole position. 

 Insert a few historically accurate references to pogroms conducted by the saviours of Christendom during the war and watch his brain explode.

[Adam]

The reason the answer is so fast is that I researched it in order to correct Wikipedia. But every time I do so some Pole (I assume it's a Pole) comes along and changes it back again!

I looked at the article and it appears that they've added 'in which cavalry was used as such and not as mounted infantry.' I don't know if that makes any difference to what you said but I'm sure they'll try to split hairs like that for any attempt you make to change it. I suppose they'll try to add a little thing like that to the other claim as well. I've just noticed that there is only one reference for the whole article!

That's the internet for you, I suppose. If you want to see the worst the internet has too offer, go and have a look at the comments section of history-related youtube videos. It makes your mind boggle and it appears every country has its own band of 'my country can do no wrong' internet warriors. I used to argue with them but now I've given up, it's a waste of time.

Sad thing is, I was a bit of an internet nationalist myself when I first got online 10 years ago (including for Poland as I would never accept that my Grandfather's country had been anything less than sacred throughout its history, I was a fanatical 15 year old English-Polish nationalist/insufferable gobby pillock  ). I grew out of it pretty soon though so I guess there's hope for everyone.

[ts]

14th Lancers Jazlowicki in 1920
The cap is the typical Polish cavalry cap late in the war with a large, metal-brimmed shade.
The cap band was yellow, and the lance-flags decorating the collars yellow with a white stripe in the middle.

[Adam]

Thanks for the photo, TS.

Gripping Beast do seperate heads with round topped caps if that's any help.