20% on Shipping

[Too Bo Coo]

I live in Continental Europe and buy a large number of items from UK sellers.  The 'Royal' Port is quite expensive, so when I look at vendors the first thing I check is their postage policy.  Some sellers have VERY generous free shipping with a reasonable 30-50 GBP purchase, which is about my average purchase amount as well.  I use these vendors as much as possible.  Others have flat fee's based upon the cost range or some other factor.  I do business with these vendors when the numbers work out.  Sadly, there are a few that have what I think are fairly predatory policies that charge postage as a flat percentage of sales.  So if I buy a $15.00 sheet of decals with other items, I'm still paying another $3.00 in postage just for that item, regardless of weight or actual cost.  At the end of a large purchase, to get hit with a 20 - 30 GBP postage fee, I just end up canceling the order....  I'm not sure why some companies, and not places with any sort of built in discount, seem to also use the postage policy as a hidden fee system.  I understand in the 'big picture' this all balances out for the vendor, but I'm not as interested in balancing the vendor's books as I am in paying for the postage that I use.  Again, I'm thrilled to get a 'free postage on X purchase', and it's always a vendor's choice to give a freebie, but it seems like a bad policy to spread postal costs out across your customer base. 

Does anyone else share this concern or is it just me?

[former user]

I do
try to not order from them

Miniaturicum has a very generous shipping pricing

pricing is always a matter of acceptance - if they are used that customers accept, they will do it - it appears that in UK it is a generally accepted procedure
In US it is very different and in other European countries as well
try to order something from italy, have fun...

[Westfalia Chris]

You may want to consider that small companies (which form the majority of our industry, for better or worse) do not always qualify for discounts from their logistics providers (e.g. Royal Mail, Parcelforce, TNT, UPS, DHL), in which case they may be obliged to pay "customers' prices" for shipping items.

For overseas shipments, especially transoceanic or air freight, that may cause considerable costs to small companies, so the percentage approach may be the easiest one for them (as opposed to charging at cost, especially if there are no easily-discernible price bands).

That said, 30 pounds from the UK to mainland Europe does sound a bit excessive, and I must say I haven't encountered a company recently that didn't have a postage cap in that region. Without requesting names, some more details might be useful - e.g. what are the measurements and weight of the goods you wanted to purchase? Anything above 500g tends to get expensive quickly, especially from the UK.

[Too Bo Coo]

I meant to mention, I purposefully left out names, because the postage policy is generally unlinked from any other feeling about these vendors.  I go to them in the first place because I like their product, etc.  But I find that to order say a bunch of decal sheets, which can run 5 - 10 GBP each, for say a 50GBP order, and then to pay another 10GBP in postage....it causes me to cancel.
I totally understand about long distances, cross-oceanic, etc, but I've ordered from some pretty small vendors that only have their own small product line, and enjoyed free shipping on a modest 30 GBP purchase, so I'm not sure it's always the smallest companies that have these policies.
I guess in the end, if I see that my postage is some % of my purchase total, I cant help but feel that someone is trying to rob me a little. I'd much rather just pay the real P&P costs and be done with it.

[former user]

I have to slightly disagree here Chris
every company from Germany, be it small or large, takes the pain to charge exactly the shipping price of the logistics provider. And they offer free shipping above a certain order value. It is definitely an issue of customary usage in UK. Even US companies often offer discounts, and these are expensive.
Or consider AUS retailers - these are often even cheaper than inside Europe shipping

[OSHIROmodels]

I charge what it costs rounded up to the nearest pound or thereabouts although I don't have a shopping trolly.

Maybe if you sent the companies a quick email asking a reduction in the postage they would probably oblige.

I can understand the want for an automated service as it take some of the hassle out of selling and as Chris mentions, the most of us are small scale operartions with normal day jobs.

I might look into a shopping trolly for when I open next year and the postage will be a standard percentage but after trading for several years I have a good record of what items cost what in postage terms and obviously I'd be open to asking to have the postage reduced if it seems to much  

cheers

James

[Westfalia Chris]

I have to slightly disagree here Chris
every company from Germany, be it small or large, takes the pain to charge exactly the shipping price of the logistics provider. And they offer free shipping above a certain order value. It is definitely an issue of customary usage in UK. Even US companies often offer discounts, and these are expensive.
Or consider AUS retailers - these are often even cheaper than inside Europe shipping

I'd hazard the guess that it is a bit easier from Germany, as DHL and their main competitors offer price categories (from the UK, if I recall correctly, there is a stronger weight-based element) which are easier to factor into the calculation.

That said, I wonder if the free shipping thing isn't actually a sign of cannibalization - large players (e.g. Amazon), due to their purchasing power and framework agreements, pay considerably less per shipped delivery to their provider than small companies sending out maybe 20-30 parcels per week; still, the customer base expects free shipping from all companies, which then has to be paid out of product margins - less of a problem for large-volume operators, much more for small companies.

That said, charging a flat 20-30% "shipping and handling fee" without considering maximum caps does sound a bit unprofessional (or not customer friendly), and may be indicative of some mix calculation aimed at subsidising other parts of the business.

[Hitman]

I agree with Jimbibbly. I charge what the postal service charges me, but that charge includes a tracking number and insurance for "piece of mind" up to $100 for both parties. This charge is only about $2 more than a non-tracked and non-insured parcel. Mind you I sell rule books which includes, plastic artillery templates and 360 - 400 cards all inclusive making it a heavy parcel. Unfortunately postage has gone up in price worldwide, and it is what it is. I do not gouge or reap any profit from shipping charges. I charge what I must rounded up to the nearest dollar.

When I purchase items from other manufacturers, I wait until they have sales and then order as the sale price generally covers the cost of the postage, so I am abe to purchase it at retail prices.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Regards,
Hitman
 

[FramFramson]

I am not actually a fan of insured packages, because sometimes Canada Post will charge customs values on the implcit assumption that the "Insured value" is the true value, even if the declared value is correct.

So buy a $50 item, the seller takes the insurance, which was I believe minimum $250 value, and then I was charged customs fees as if the shipment was a $250 item.

[former user]

My understanding was that the op complaint was about charging a percentage that can can be disproportionate related to the value of the order. This can be unproductive since it inhibits ordering - everyone can agree here or not?
I can't imagine anyone who would object to pay what the shipment actually costs.
Of course noone can compete with Amazon shipping conditions, but then we are not talking GW here, do we?

[grant]

As a Canadian, I find the % shipping thing to suck.

That being said, the very best UK company to order from is Perry. They actually drop the VAT, their shipping is 25%, and at £200 it's all free. They are fast and efficient, and their prices are excellent to start with.

[maxxon]

I don' t mind shipping as long as it's up front. Ofcourse the actual fee does have some weight in considering the order (hint: reasonable free shipping limits make me order more stuff), but I feel the seller has the right to ask anything they like for shipping -- and I have the right not accept, which I have done with a number of otherwise fine sellers.

What I deplore is hidden costs. I don't like having to collect my entire order and finish 90% of the order process just to see the shipping charge.

Another annoying tactic is advertising prices without VAT. Again, almost the entire order process needs to finished and then you have be careful to notice that tax charge tacked on top of everything.

[redzed]

They actually drop the VAT,

all non-EU countries shouldn't pay VAT.

[Silent Invader]

This is an interesting debate and one in which I declare a self interest (www.miniatureMOJO.co.uk).

As regards VAT (a UK sales tax), smaller companies can be outside of the scheme and so do not charge it (Redzed will know this - so this comment is for the info of buyers from outside Europe).  If it isn't charged, it isn't there to be removed so Rest of World buyers won't see a 'reduction'.  However, if a company's sales are subject to the addition of VAT then it must be included in and declared as part of the advertised retail price (not an add-on at the end of the cart process).

As regards shipping, I do offer it free on UK orders over £20, Europe £30 and RoW £40.  In part this reflects that my products are optimised to minimise shipping costs.  My ranges (be they miniatures, buildings, paints, glue, tools or whatever) are complementary so in a sense are also optimised towards bigger orders.  In this respect, my shipping policy is entwined with marketing policy as I am effectively providing a volume discount for higher spending customers. Does this mean that more modest spenders are subsidising the bigger spenders ...., no, as bigger orders are more efficient (and therefore cheaper ) to process.

Btw the smaller purchases are shipped at as close to cost as I can get the shopping cart to calculate - sometimes it's a bit higher and sometimes lower but it's the best I can reasonably do.  What I can't (I suppose, won't) do is get the actual shipping price then charge that, as that would make my whole process a lot less efficient and therefore more costly. 

So it's not so much a shipping policy  but an integral part of a whole business approach that also considers marketing, operations, etc,etc.

[Too Bo Coo]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!  I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who thinks along these lines.  I just want to clarify one point, when I mentioned that I prefer to pay the actual costs of the P&P, I'm 100% fine if I'm overcharged by a buck or so, packaging, etc does cost something.  I meant that +/- a buck or so is one thing, but to pay 10 GBP for a bunch of decals just puts a sour taste in my mouth...

I didnt want to mention anyone by name, but Steve's shop is one of the 'preferred' vendors that I like to deal with.  I think 30 GBP is more than reasonable level to get a shipping discount (free in this case), and more importantly his products are reasonably priced, so you dont feel that the left hand subsidizes the right. 

Some of the vendors with proprietary products tend to charge a premium on the product AND a percentage of the sale for postage.  It feels like a double whammy!

As I said form the start, I just wanted to get a feel for how the community feels about this, or if I was the only pone with this concern.  I also recognize that some postal fees are partially from accepted convention in a country, so I dont want to apply the standards of my country to another.  The US tends to go the other way and offer ridiculous savings on bulk purchases that often include not only free shipping but a discount.