ViDe Future Combat: Drone Definition?

[Saladin]

I see Drones mentioned but not defined anywhere.

[Agis]

I see Drones mentioned but not defined anywhere.

Unit characteristics are from page 110 onward:
High Tech Infantry Platoon Medi-Drone Support Team
ECM Drone Support Team
Recon Drone Support Team
Pioneer Drone Support Team

[Saladin]

But that doesn't tell me what the Drone characteristic means (since it isn't defined anywhere). How are drone units different from any other type of unit?

[Agis]

I honestly do not understand your question. 

What kind of definition are you looking for? The game characteristics are in the book (see my quotes above).

ViDe FuCo is not tied to any particular miniature line or any specific background.

Therefore it is sometimes - deliberately - vague. That is also the reason why I can't explain how certain weapons work, I took pains to explain the common known background for the most established SF weapon at the end of each weapon chart.

The term drone is used in 2 ways in the book.
1 - Flying drones like todays unmanned combat air vehicles.
See P.46: "If you want to use tactical airstrikes, bomb runs by jets or rockets shot from a drone simply use the Light, Heavy or Precision Air Strikes that can be called in by most HQ Elements."

2 - Generic SF AI/ Robot controlled machines that perform various task on the battlefield.
See P. 96ff:  "Medical trained personal or drones are highly available; AI guided drones scan the battlefield and perform more dangerous task."
Think of the Star Wars Ep.V Imperial Probe Droid on Hoth, or the ones from the movie Oblivion, or Games Workshop Tau Drones, or the Stargate M.A.L.P. , or Infinity's drones etc etc

Let me also quote some general Design Ideas for FuCo from the book; P.121f:
I am not only a gamer, but also a very dedicated miniature painter. Thus, I wanted a ruleset that would give me the opportunity to play with almost any SF miniature available, and if possible, with only a few miniatures at one time. Quite often a new miniature company springs up with some very cool and well-designed minis, which capture my eye. Wouldn't it be nice to just be able to play with these miniatures without having to learn yet another sys-tem dedicated directly to a miniatures line? Or to be able to add some new miniatures to an existing force without having to search for some special rules for them?  I have read similar questions time and again on the gaming forums, so I know there are others out there that feel the same way as I do. 
...
I hope that all of you who played Victory Decision: WW II will have noticed a lot of new rules but also that the core of the game remains still the same.
New is the more detailed activation system that incorporates both Electronic Warfare rules and a Command Point system. The idea was to give more tactical possibilities than ever before.
On a side note – if you are playing our WW II game and like the Command Point system and additional segment, feel free to use it right away in your WW II games!
Future Combat also introduces Air Units to Victory Decision. You can now use VTOLs in your games; it has opened some nice options for air transports and a unique scenario.
Also new is the Overwatch action that can only be used by spending Command Points.
New infantry abilities have also been added. Some are the logical step when looking at other new rules, like Alert which is based on the Overwatch Action. Or ECM to counter enemy Command Points Hovercy-cle and Jet-Pack ability have similar benefits to Air Units. Combat Drugs represent biological ad-vancements, which could also be said for the Fero-cious ability. Night Vision rounds out the new Infan-try rules neatly.
As far as weapons go there are also some new features; the AA feature was needed to introduce a countermeasure against the new air units. For the more experimental weapons we introduced Mal-function and Minimum Range in addition to the existing Overheating rule. And since no SF game would be complete without flashing laser beams the Laser feature just had to be added! All other neces-sary features – like Sonic or Haywire - were already established since the Gear Krieg book.


I hope that helps! If anything else needs explanation, please let me know. 

[Conquistador]

How about, "An unmanned device capable of movement over/on/under land/sea environments that is capable of acting by remote control, semi-autonomously acting on internal programming monitored externally with any or all functions capable of being controlled remotely, or autonomously based on pre-coded instructions to achieve programmed goals such as transport, reconnaissance and/or monitoring, rescue, medical aid, salvage, security, police, or military functions (ranging from non-lethal to lethal.")

Not perfect, just wrote it on the fly.  I already see where the new drones exceed those words so I agree it should leave the definition open to alternatives not explicitly mentioned in the above rough definition.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

But that doesn't tell me what the Drone characteristic means (since it isn't defined anywhere). How are drone units different from any other type of unit?

See my definition above and understand that (have not read the rules so I may be off base) you can almost certainly specify or limit available options for a drone.

Example:  The People's Holy Republic Medical propeller powered drones are unarmed (lest the evil Free Merchants Federation gain control of them,) but has an electronics self destruct that can activate destroying the control units if the system loses extended contact with the PHR control teams or is commanded to violate either current coding or the Prime Commands required by the Political Priesthood.

Alternatively, the GRAV drones of Free Merchants Federation are armed with light AP weapons and one-shot Anti-armor weapons coded to return fire if fired upon by unidentified or hostile IFF sources.  The FMF drones are  prioritized to avoid destruction while recovering wounded/downed FMF personnel using suppressive fire as a second resort to evasion/jamming/counter-measures with application of lethal force during treatment or extraction requiring a response or pre-set instruction from Strategic command assets.

The exact descriptive words are almost certainly in the rules that would allow those designs I would (almost) bet.  Since I only bet with people when I already know the results    I can't actually say I "... would bet..." without the caveat.  

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

I honestly do not understand your question. 

<snip>

Part of your confusion may be that the asker seems to want a clearly worded explicit legalistic (and that is not a bad word) definition of "drone" where as you seem to working on a common sense layman implicit working definition.  He may feel he needs it for dealing with some players who stretch both the word and the spirit of the rules in games.     I realize those ar every rare...  or he/she may feel more comfortable with it "spelled out" in detail to hopefully avoid any in game confusion/disagreement.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Agis]

The People's Holy Republic Medical propeller powered drones are unarmed (lest the evil Free Merchants Federation gain control of them,) but has an electronics self destruct that can activate destroying the control units if the system loses extended contact with the PHR control teams or is commanded to violate either current coding or the Prime Commands required by the Political Priesthood.

I love this idea, which leads me to another idea for drones - a self destruct device is cool. I will integrate it in a later update!

Alternatively, the GRAV drones of Free Merchants Federation are armed with light AP weapons and one-shot Anti-armor weapons coded to return fire if fired upon by unidentified or hostile IFF sources.  The FMF drones are  prioritized to avoid destruction while recovering wounded/downed FMF personnel using suppressive fire as a second resort to evasion/jamming/counter-measures with application of lethal force during treatment or extraction requiring a response or pre-set instruction from Strategic command assets.

Hmm, that could be done - use the standard High Tech Infantry Platoon Medi-Drone Support Team! OK, the one-shot Anti-armor weapon is not there...

Part of your confusion may be that the asker seems to want a clearly worded explicit legalistic (and that is not a bad word) definition of "drone" where as you seem to working on a common sense layman implicit working definition.

True, in a virtually background free generic rulebook like mine I do not see much value describing the units. I provide the game values - unit characteristics - and the player can pick the background he wants to use it in.

[Dewbakuk]

I haven't got the book, I'm in the waiting for physical copy crowd currently but I suspect Saladin is asking if there is a rule for them being Drones? For example, do Drones activate differently to other unit types? Are they susceptible to hackers?

So if there is a characteristic "Drone" listed under the Recon Drone Support Team, how does that effect the unit within the game?


Of course, given that I haven't read it yet, I could be completely wrong 

[Agis]

Well, only Saladin can enlighten us...
 

[Saladin]

I suspect Saladin is asking if there is a rule for them being Drones? For example, do Drones activate differently to other unit types? Are they susceptible to hackers?

So if there is a characteristic "Drone" listed under the Recon Drone Support Team, how does that effect the unit within the game?

That's exactly what I am asking. There are units described as being Drones - and that in the Unit Lists have the characteristic "Drone" - but that characteristic is never defined, and it is never explained what makes a Drone unit different from any other unit in terms of game play.

[Agis]

Ahh, got it.  

Well a specific "Drone" ability was IMO not required.
You may have noticed that all Drones in the High Tech Infantry Platoon list have the "Single Minded, Untrained" ability.
Single Minded - Units with this Ability are too dumb, fanatic, well trained or programmed to react as normal even when coming under fire.
So in effect they are immune to suppression but at the same time lack some tactical insight and behave not as smart as their living buddies.

So the overall effect of a robotic combat unit how I saw it was pretty well achieved.
ViDE FuCo is most of the time effect driven.

[Talarius]

As long as we're discussing drones, I was wondering if taking one drone instead of two @ half points cost would be permissible?  Can't see any reason not too, except it would chew up platoon slots more quickly.  That doesn't seem like a major problem given how quickly points get used up during army-building.

[Conquistador]

<snip>Are they susceptible to hackers?
<snip>

You could handle hacking as a subset of EW traits?  Are those in the rules?  CM/CCM/EW are so much a part of war today (did the Iranians really hack a drone or did it just have an electronic malfunction and revert to default mode or was it planted there to mislead the Iranians?) that they might be in the rules.  The idea should probably be addressed with high tech forces. 

I might note that open source (which I neither confirm or deny) says 100+ (way plus) first and second tier nations have operational drones on or near the IOC stage.  (IOC - Initial Operating Capability) plus another (number not open source) in the third tier working feverishly to get operational forces...

I mean if Drones become a huge issue in the game world then it might behoove opponents to detail EW aspects of  game... hell, it could a whole sub-game if you let it (Which I do not suggest as a good thing.)

Gracias,

Glenn

KISS rules!

[Agis]

As long as we're discussing drones, I was wondering if taking one drone instead of two @ half points cost would be permissible?  Can't see any reason not too, except it would chew up platoon slots more quickly.  That doesn't seem like a major problem given how quickly points get used up during army-building.

As long as your opponent agrees and both Drones have the same equipment all is fine! 

And yes, you do not need many miniatures in the High Tech lvl list...