Why we all should know about War and Conquest: a review

[janner]

Shahbahraz, could you just confirm when during the battle of Marignano unsupported French cavalry broke a fresh Swiss pike bloke?

Moreover, at Fornovo I believe the aim was for the Italian (light) horse to disrupt the French line and fix them in place whilst the main Italian force flanked the French position? Was there a particular charge by heavy Italian horse on a French foot unit you had in mind?

[Cubs]

I think at Marignano (working from memory) the cavalry charged the flanks of the blocks or fixed them frontally whilst missile troops disrupted them, before charging home.

Having said that, I do think Shah has a point that a rule system should treat the extra-heavy cavalry (such as cataphracts, late medieval heavily armoured knights) as different beasts from other cavalry. They weren't used the same, they didn't act the same, just because they were on horses. A horse in a solid block of knights formed knee to knee is not going to be able to make many decisions as to where it goes!

More brittle than equivalent infantry, because they were necessrily limited to frontal attacks and couldn't redeploy or reform as easily, yet still the core of a few successful armies. Sometimes a one-shot weapon is all you need if you use it right.

I guess this is where supplements come into their own, to provide the necessary flavour of an individual nation or region's forces. Thanks Pij, I hadn't really considered WaC, because I'm all about CoE, but it's thought provoking.

[Pijlie]

I didn't want to hijack my own thread   but I'm a bit curious as well.

AFAIK at Marignano French cavalry ouflanked and charged the Swiss van who were not in defensive formation but were charging (and being battered by) the French guns. The Swiss were then driven back but the French horse failed to break the Swiss center.

At Fornovo the cavalry attack almost broke the French because their infantry was charged while in the process of forming up, or so I always understood.

[scarabminiatures]

First, thank you for the commentary and reviews

War & Conquest has indeed been gaining a lot of support and has over 500 free army lists online.

Regarding cavalry- Much will depend on how the list writer has chosen to represent the army concerned. The mechanics exist using the rules and the relevant army profiles. Some heavy cavalry can go 'toe to toe' with infantry, but without support will soon fall into trouble if they do not immediately break through. - Indeed Sassanid's do quite well in the hands of two of my opponents but that might be down to me as the general on the receiving end of their skill!

A number of army lists are getting updates in the coming month or two, Sassanid's are one of them, as the Parthian full list is on the way

Once again, thanks for the support, you can view page spreads for War & Conquest here http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=897 and if you fancy buying a copy, please do go here http://scarabminiatures.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=70, we also have some deals with plastic sets or our metal Greek/Spartan range

[Shahbahraz]

At Marignano - Bayard is supposed to have ridden through a pike block.

[scarabminiatures]

Just to confirm, our special promotion on the War & Conquest rule book is continuing for a couple more weeks, and we have a gaming day/ weekend 22/23 February see the events section for more info - thanks

Re the pikes, by the time of the period discussed, within the War & Conquest army lists cavalry can engage the front of a pike block, but as mentioned in my previous post, they won't get on too well without rapid support or they get really lucky on the dice - which can happen!! 

[Prof.Witchheimer]

Got the game from Miniaturicum and now reading it. Lovely book, guys, well done. Like the way you have resolved the charging movement, btw.

[moiterei_1984]

Because of this very thread I got the ruleset from Miniaturicum also and had an excellent read over the holidays. Ok... I had my eyes on it for quite some time but somehow it never made it on my to buy list. With the benefit of hindsight I'd say a shame 

[Pijlie]

 

[Arrigo]

enthusiastic review. I will disagree with:

"Why do people pay 30 Euros for Warlords Ancients Army Lists supplement when they can download the WAC Ancients Armybook for free and play a better game wih it?"

It looks like newspaper advertising in an otherwise well written support piece. Yet I will not define it a proper review I would say, I have not actually realized a lot about the game itself except that cavalry is faster than WAB and it uses the silliness of individual based figures and casualties    yes I do not like individual basing  . To a certain extent it seems more to me a catalog of the defects from WAB than a description of War and Conquest. Said that it has prompt me to have a look at it! So it was a successful piece.

And I will not dwell on the horses vs pike... suffice to say that generalizations on both sides pf the argument looks like generalizations.



 

[Pijlie]

enthusiastic review. I will disagree with:

"Why do people pay 30 Euros for Warlords Ancients Army Lists supplement when they can download the WAC Ancients Armybook for free and play a better game wih it?"

It looks like newspaper advertising in an otherwise well written support piece.

I admit it. I have shamelessly ventilated my opinion here  

[A Lot of Gaul]

I imagine that some folks purchase the Warlord Games army list supplements because they prefer them.
'Different strokes,' and all that!          

[janner]

There's also the question of volume. Doing a supplement means that you have to cover a complete period/theme, with each army potentially requiring different options to cover the time frame of the supplement.

Free lists can be drip fed as evolving drafts, don't need a narrative frame, photos etc. and can be for just a couple of opponents. One can relatively easily update the PDF and people are more forgiving of errors. In fact, it can be a collaborative process, which benefits both the rules writer and the player.

So, for example, it may be fairly simple  pretty to knock-up free downloadable draft lists for Third Crusaders and Saladin over the course of a weekend, but take some eighteen months to write and playtest the lists, and scenarios, research and write the historical framing, get all the shiny photos done etc. for a full supplement to cover the Crusades.*

* All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental 

[grant]

Why thank you. It was my pleasure.

Just came across your review - very nice! I'm having a difficult time finding something to play games with my Teutonics with, and these may be the ones.

Now, if they would just have a sale, or post free ...