British rifles in Africa

[Bryanbowdell]

Does anybody know if any of the native/colonial soldiers in Africa would have been issued old rifles such as the Snider?

I have seen the Martini-Henry and Martini-Metfords issued to some KAR rifle units.

[Plynkes]

I think by then the Snider was history. The KAR mostly had long Lees by that time, and Martinis were being handed out to Masai native scout units. So even the Brit equivalent of Ruga-Ruga had better guns than Sniders.

Not saying for definite, but I haven't seen evidence for it.

[former user]

@CB claims that the copplestone Zanzibari carry them, so I guess yes, maybe the zanzibari arabs bought them?
also, Wiki says:
" Large numbers were used by the Ijesas against the Ibadans during the 16 years Yoruba Civil War of 1877 to 1893."

[Plynkes]

All very interesting, but quite what that has to do with British units in the Great War I am not sure.

[Cubs]

From what I've read, it seems that the British Colonial troops were unusual in that they were issued with fairly modern Enfield bolt action rifles (not necessarily the same mark as those the British Regulars carried). I think the likes of Germany, Portugal and Belgium issued mainly obsolete rifles to their native troops (at least at the start of the war), which caused difficulties in ammunition supply as well as the obvious disparity in the performance of the weapon.

I'm not too widely read on the subject in fairness, but I'm about 80% sure that I have read this much.

[former user]

All very interesting, but quite what that has to do with British units in the Great War I am not sure.

nothing at all indeed

Does anybody know if any of the native [...] soldiers in Africa would have been issued old rifles such as the Snider?

have I mistaken the question and it refers only to imperial units? - sorry then 

[Bryanbowdell]

nothing at all indeed

have I mistaken the question and it refers only to imperial units? - sorry then 

I found it quite relevant.  Also wondering what rifles the Indian Imperial Service battalions used in East Africa

[Plynkes]

Osprey says the Kashmir Rifles had Martini-Enfields, but photographs show them with Lee-Enfields.

[former user]

here is another Wiki quote then (although it is not referenced....)

"Frank Richards, who served on the Northwest Frontier between 1902 and 1908, records in Old Soldier Sahib that Sniders were still in use by the British army during that period. Night sentries on duty in camps and cantonments would be issued with a Snider and buckshot cartridges. Should tribesmen try to get into the camp to steal rifles, the sentries would have a better chance of hitting the thief, and unlike a .303 round, there would be less danger of wounding or killing a comrade if they missed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snider-Enfield

[former user]

I understand, I missed the period, sorry

[Plynkes]

have I mistaken the question and it refers only to imperial units? - sorry then  

No, but I don't see what bearing a Yoruba civil war in 1877 has on the rifles carried by units of whatever type on the British side in Africa during the Great War. This is the Great War board, I assumed that the question was asking for information about the Great War.

[Bryanbowdell]

I have seen a photo of an East African Mounted Rifles trooper with a double barrelled hunting rifle.  It seems to me that sinders and other such rifles may have still been available to local/native units, especially given how many were converted into "Zulu guns" for hunting.

[Cubs]

Various volunteer units would no doubt have been equipped with whatever was to hand of course. It's tricky to know who was irregular and who was regular, just from the unit titles.

[Plynkes]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be daft enough rule it (the Snider) out: it has to remain a possibilty, it's just that what few photos there are show such units with more modern guns. You see native units with Martinis and even barely-functional rowdy irregular units such as the Somalis of Cole's Scouts had Lee-Metfords or Long Lee-Enfields. There doesn't seem to have been any shortage of more modern rifles for such units, nor any hesitation to give them to even the most ill-trained and undisciplined troops.

[Bryanbowdell]

There is some scope then for some irregular troops armed with older weapons for WW1 skirmishing!