It started while reading LOTR

[Conquistador]

The discussion between friends turned to, "Does every author create non-human Fantasy races based (probably consciously) on historical groups (Huns, Vikings, etc.,)?"

That led to, "Can you create a fantasy race from scratch that is not based on human groups?  What would it look like?"

Your thoughts, examples?

Gracias,

Glenn

Off to Church on that thought, hope to see what others think besides my game group types.

[capthugeca]

Welcome back from church, Glenn. 

I don't think that the races in Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are based on historical groups.
That was one of the things that attracted me to the first trilogy - most refreshing.

Concerning the creation of a fantasy race I'll hopefuly get back to you after our evening service.

Hugh

[FramFramson]

Much more difficult or rare, I would say. Those instances you do see have almost a fairy-story quality to them. Of course, even with entirely new creatiions an author might refer to historical sources for forms of warfare, kit, weapons, government, etc. So the waters might get muddy there.

I can't think of any specific examples of totally pure creations right now, but I want to say that you're more likely to find something more original that the farther back you go, before the paradigm of "copy a past human civilization" really became the dominant trend. That's not to say modern writers would be less capable, but it can be hard to shake the influences of your surroundings.

Actually, if you count the dreamlands stories by Lovecraft, I would say there are a number of odd and unique fantasy races there.

Another place you might find more original races are in places where the line between science-fiction and fantasy is blurred, such as in the Barsoom novels.

It's an interesting question because science-fiction writers make a point of trying to create unique species and lands all the time, while the Fantasy genre is oftena bit more staid.

[Doomhippie]

It seems to be a problem for humans in general to accept the possibility of a non-human culture. Most cultures/races whatevers seem to be modeled after a typical human flaw. There are no perfects in the world only very specialized ather cultures that ultimately are doomed to vanish to make room for human domination.

Even though Star Trek is not specifically phantasie but more sci-fi if we look at the cultures/races there we see something like the Klingons (stupidely aggressive and warlike, seemingly unable to understand diplomacy), those nasty space merchants (forgot the names - but so much focused on making a profit that any human can outsmaprt them) and the Vulcans (unable to understand emotions and thus unable to use a different than logical approach to problems thus being morally flawed).

And it's a sittle like this in any old fantsay setting. We seem to be unable to comprehend anything apart from being human and thus see anything else as humans lacking a certain perfection. Really pathetic if you ask me but then again it's hard to imagine something you cannot imagine... (if that makes any sense).

[nic-e]

I had an idea for an alien race that doesn't relate to humans, but it does relate to basking sharks so it probably wouldn't count.

[Vermis]

Really pathetic if you ask me but then again it's hard to imagine something you cannot imagine... (if that makes any sense).

Is 'really pathetic' a bit of a harsh judgement, then? For all that humans anthropomorphise even inanimate objects, I don't think it's too surprising that the conception of a fictional race is viewed through the lens of human experience, with a few rare exceptions.

(But, to go on a tangent, I see it in fantasy creature models too. Too few sculptors seem able to put a quadruped shoulder on a quadruped creature, even with plenty of horses and wolves knocking around of the tabletop. If I never see another dragon with extremely short, bunchy, bodybuilder deltoids, connected to nothing in particular, it'll be too soon. But I digress.)

Me, I've got it worse. I've been having vague thoughts about a fantasy setting, populated by the same old elves, dwarfs and orcs, of the kind that's been so popular since about 1936 or '54 or so. But I like elves, dwarfs and orcs. They can be a comforting constant as well as a tired cliche. Although I do appreciate (and am largely satisfied by) shuffling things about a bit, putting a twist or two on races and their situations; and getting away from the old Middle-Earth/Hyboria/Warhammer alternate/proto-Europe.

[Doomhippie]

Is 'really pathetic' a bit of a harsh judgement, then? For all that humans anthropomorphise even inanimate objects, I don't think it's too surprising that the conception of a fictional race is viewed through the lens of human experience, with a few rare exceptions.

Yes and no.
I think it is a shortcoming but I guess that is part of our intellectual make-up. Nothing we can do about, I guess. It shows us our limits. I can't really blame anyone for that.

I still like the good old Tolkien elves, dwarves and orcs.

[Conquistador]

 Back from Church and visting Mon-in-law at Nursing home with Supper going on table.

Yes, I find familiar safe and easy to understand.  Something too "different" might have trouble being a commercial success (which I define for our hobby as breaking even.)   

Yes, Lovecraft.  Hmm, did he create from whole cloth or just twisted other culture's heroes/monsters?  I don't know and that is not a criticism if he did.  Some of his stuff was scary because it was semi-incomprehensible in motivations IIRC.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Blackwolf]

Glenn,have a look at the Pegana stories by Lord Dunsany.

Having said that,as Lars said,can't go past Tolkien

[Conquistador]

Welcome back from church, Glenn.  

I don't think that the races in Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" are based on historical groups.
That was one of the things that attracted me to the first trilogy - most refreshing.

Concerning the creation of a fantasy race I'll hopefuly get back to you after our evening service.

Hugh

Hmm, I couldn't read those when they first came out (personal situation gave me no patience with a story about a whiney hero in denial at the time - my personal foible then.)  I guess I need to borrow the first book from a  friend and try again...

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

Glenn,have a look at the Pegana stories by Lord Dunsany.

Having said that,as Lars said,can't go past Tolkien

I will talk to my friends and see if I can borrow those.  Wow, Lord Dunsany,  a blast from the past!

Gracias,

Glenn

[Conquistador]

Google gives me... hindi characters!

What is "revelious" please?

closest I come up with is

   Fond of festivity; given to merrymaking or reveling.
Companionable and revelous was she.
- Chaucer.

Gracias,

Glenn


P. S.

Stuff like http://www.wordaz.com/revelious.html is not helpful...

[Vermis]

I will talk to my friends and see if I can borrow those.  Wow, Lord Dunsany,  a blast from the past!

You can also get some of his writing off the Project Gutenberg site, if e-reading doesn't bother you too much.
I know Lovecraft was influenced by Poe and Dunsany, though I don't know how much personal world-building he did. From what I gather a lot of the 'Cthulhu mythos' was consolidated by other writers.

[FramFramson]

Dunsany: https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL39937A/Lord_Dunsany

Been meaning to read that for like... forever.

[Blackwolf]

Whilst reading Dunsany,check the artist Sidney Sime who illustrated many of Dunsany's stories; and who is also given an nod in Lovecraft's Pickman's Model.