TYW Army 28mm (3) - New Regiment and Swedish Brigade Simulation

[nelsons-signal]

Hello former user,  (and for Captaingeneral)

It is difficult to us Shwedish Brigades in games.
In the book “The army of Gustavus Adolphus 1 Infantry Men-At-Arms Series 235”
a brigade of this kind is shown on P. 14 (yust as “Pike and shot Tactics 1590-1660”, Keith Roberts, P. 22 or P. 30.)
The comment says: “The Swedish brigade only barely outlived Gustavus; Turner who arrived in Germany in 1632 saw it used “for one year after the kings death”. (To be replaced by regiments.)

I´m not sure about the look and use of the brigades.
During the 30 years war the development of increasing fire power went on.
There was a growing lack of Pike-men  and  the ratio form 2:1 shot to pike was more desire – it was 3:1 or 4:1 from 1640 whole Regiments without Pikes where  established. 
A formation that masses pikes in the front line – instead of muskets seems doubtful and
Brigades (or regiments) that mass fire Power in the front appear more realistic to me.
If the regiments develops fire power as shown – the only concession to a brigade is the command structure.

If a commander (or a gamer) uses three regiments (always together) as a brigade.
But he could use the units side by side..
(I don´t think a gamer can be forced to use a second (reserve) line - unless by benefits through the rules of the game.)

I think the great advantage of the Swedish Brigade was the more flexible command structure.
To simulate this in a wargame - a single (less flexible) imperial unit should be larger than a whole (more flexible) Swedish Brigade. (What a laaaarge  Unit  )

I will simulate the higher flexibility with more regiments for the Swedish instead.
I increase the strength of the Regiments to 30-32 Shot and 15-16 Pike for Imperial Regiments the total number of 8 Swedish Regiments stands against 6 Imperial Regiments by nearly the same number of Figures
320 – 320.
The higher flexibility of 2 extra Regiments stands against the higher steadiness of the larger Imperial troops.
I hope too this will contribute a more interesting game too.

Cheers
Achim 

[former user]

this looks like a laaarge tabletop.....

[15thpanzer]

This is why I should check out the flouncy shirt section more often. Fabulous looking figures for a fascinating period. Looking forward to seeing more. Cheers.

[Captaingeneral]

Dear Achim

I just love the look of your beautiful Blue Brigade, Top Marks to you and thanks for sharing.

I was very interested to read your deliberations on the problems of 17th C wargaming.
At the risk of leading this thread into a new debate, may I propose some (maybe controversial) ideas?

1. In general I would like to make the case for the TYW period (Gustavus notwithstanding) as a period where virtually all armies were equally (in)effective. 
At first sight this might seem an unattractive war to game, whereas in fact it levels the playing-field and opens up the possibility of equally balanced forces challenging gentlemen-gamers to a contest of skill on the table top (not in the selection of army lists)

My approach to rule writing comes from the generalles point of view, i.e. the Generals job is to draw up the army and attempt to remain in control of his initial plan (Why? to beat the enemy of course ),
letting his junior officers order the ranks and files, Its not the Generals job to micromanage these things.

2. I too have been flummoxed by the pike/shot manoeuvring, the contradictions of 17th C prints showing squarish Formations of Foot when we now know formations were becoming longer and shallower ushering in linear warfare. So flying in the face of what we know now my Foot units are of an aspect ratio of 3/2, this gives a great advantage in getting 8 Swedish brigades in 28mm on a tabletop!


3. Choosing the early Swedish phase of the war (1630-1632) tempts you into thinking you need to have markedly different Foot formations and capabilities, when in fact the impact of Gustavus's reforms wore off pretty quickly after the 1631 triumph at Breitenfeld, as his veteran troops died and his succeeding generals lacked his spark, but maybe more importantly his opponents adopted some of his methods.So my Swedes have exactly the same formations as the Imperial troop (sacrilege!!)

4. In field battles the Swedish brigades were often bigger than the Imperial formations, but more flexible? I wonder... their 'flexibilty' certainly didn't affect the outcome(post Breitenfeld) but rather their dogged determination and courage in the face of huge losses. So my Swedish Infantry formations have a higher resilience than the Imperialist Foot
At Lutzen when they were tested to the limit by the new Imperial formations the frontline attacks massed the pike in front of the remaining shot to soak up the imperial fire (a sort of ablative armour? ouch!)

My own rules are intended to refight the Battles from 1632 onward. i.e. Alte Veste and Lutzen onwards. By that point any real difference between Gustavus (and his successors) and Wallenstein (and his successors) systems of formation and battlefield deployment had ceased to have an impact on the outcome of battles.

(Dont get me started on charging Swedish Horse vs Caracoling Imperial Cuirassiers!!)

Yours in the cause!

Steve aka Captaingeneral 
 
PS
I will send you a copy of my rules (THE WARRE GAME) if you PM me with an email address.

[former user]

now someone has done his homework here.
I am so looking forward to the discussion 

[Coriolanus]

...the dimension of this project is scary...
-- around 740 Infanry at last + guns + cavalry (around 40% to 50% strengh of Infantry = 300 horseman ) 

Cheers C.

[Atheling]

Absolutely love the pics of the regiments in action, really well painted and on great terrain.

 

Darrell.

[traveller]

I bow my head in awe 

It is posts like this that starts you searching the leadpile for those old TYW figures you have somewhere...

[Youngster]

Lovely paintjobs 
Just painting my first Swedes now, will have to pinch some of those ideas 
Cheers
Paul