If my reading of history is correct...

[Conquistador]

it was more common to own a shotgun or carbine for most people than a revolver, (if modern prices are any indication of the prices "back then" that would be a factor too,) because it was more utilitarian.  

As a general statement open to exception, Vaqueros would have had their working knife and their reata (aka lariat,) Cowboys might in addition have had a pistol [though that seems not common] and [ possibly more commonly]  a carbine (in a boot when riding/working,) Farmer's a shotgun or carbine for four legged varmints and supplemental hunting, and towns folks might have no firearms a larger percentage of the time if I am getting the  gist of the actual history, (and not the fiction,) in my past readings.

So, other than gunslingers, cavalry troops, and 'law enforcement' , shouldn't most western figures carrying weapons be armed with a rifle/carbine/shotgun?

Just wondering out loud, feel free to point me to actual historical facts if possible.

Gracias,

Glenn

[Mason]

I am certainly no expert but that sounds like sound logic to me.

[EndTransmission]

Makes sense to me. Certainly the history book I'm currently reading indicates that there were occasionally some community owned firearms; though that may be down to the writer's style being unclear... In a number of the recountings it has people running to the general store or bank to collect a firearm to defend the town.

[former user]

I would tend to go with the OP elaboration, however a bit different argumentation.
A firearm is expensive and was, ammo too
If someone needs a weapon, a long firearm would be favoured, since it is more useful for hunting and defending (accuracy and distance). Pistols are for close combat against humans, so an additional expense. However

after wars, firearms tend to be available in abundance and would be picked up for defence - unsecure times.
So what wars would have provided a lot of firearms? ACW?

I am not very familiar with US history, but I would argue that this whole gunslinger phenomenon might have been the result of too many armed and dangerous people after the war?  just a thought....

[Cory]

Some years back I had to go through death records for Deer Lodge County Montana for the years from territorial status in 1863 through statehood in 1889, and part of those were numerous declarations of possessions as part of the probate. What I saw there would match what Conquistador said, though I would guess in more than half the instances where a gun was listed there would be more than one gun.

Shotguns are useful for hunting back east but in the arid and open West rifles were preferred as a hunting weapon and as wolves, coyotes, and mountain lions rarely are obliging enough to get in shotgun range, the preferred varmint gun as well.

[Elbows]

For the most part, yes.  However, a lot of people would have likely had old family hand-me-down firearms.  Think black powder revolvers from the Civil War and even muskets.  My personal pistol that I own is a replica of a Navy Conversion.



Around 10,000+ military issued black powder revolvers were converted over to cartridge revolvers after the Civil War.  This was done by cutting out a "loading" gate on the side of the revolver near the hammer, and installing a spring-mounted plunger to extract spent casings.  These conversions were much cheaper than a factory Colt Peacemaker or Remington revolver.  Most of the sixguns you'd likely find in the Old West were probably still black powder or conversions...ie. cheap utilitarian handguns.  Lots of old revolvers were found with damage to the grip of the pistol, with indications they served double duty as both pistols and hammers.

So yes, unless you were a professional gun hand, soldier, or wealth enough to own one - probably more common for someone to own a shotgun or carbine.  Guns were (and are) tools...used to fend of indians, snakes, wild animals, hunt, and the occasional bar dispute (though rare).  It is likely that gangs of Outlaws were obviously quite well armed, needing guns to intimidate people and commit crimes.

[Franz_Josef]

In addition, after the Civil War there were a lot of "surplus" rifle-muskets around.  Some were coverted to breechloaders and retained (till the next generation of weapons was bought by the army), and some of these were actually used by States units (equivalent to National Guard) in the Spanish-American War.  Some were sold overseas, and many were obtained by civilians.

[Heisler]

You might be careful with the term carbine though. The Spencer Rifle is the only thing I see that could really be considered a carbine (and I have seen it referred to as a rifle and a carbine in the same paragraph). That's the only actual carbine that I see thumbing through my books (not to say that I didn't miss anything though).

[Elbows]

Carbine has a bit of a loose use in the U.S. particularly in that time period.  Around the Civil War we started throwing the term carbine at any rifle that was smaller than a full length musket.

The confusion becomes even more when you consider that most lever action "rifles" in the Old West fired pistol caliber rounds, something like a Sharp's Carbine was exponentially more powerful/longer range, etc.  All quite confusing.   

In addition, rifles of similar make and barrel length were subject to what their manufacturers chose to call them.  In some instances a 18-19" barreled lever action was referred to as a rifle, whereas it was referred to as a carbine by other manufacturers, saving the "rifle" name for 22-24" barrels. 

In closing: good luck! 

Anyone bored can find some pretty decent information from manufacturers of replicas like Uberti or Cimarron Firearms.  The information is a bit scarce but you can get a good idea of some of the options available back in the day (note: replicas are chambered in modern calibers, but as close to original as possible).  Many revolvers back then were things like .32 ball etc.  These modern replicas would be chambered in .38 special, etc.

[NickNascati]

Glenn,
          A very interesting piece.  Look at Worthington Games, "Cowboys - Way of the Gun", the game automatically has the generic townsfolk all armed with rifles.
                                                                                       Nick

[Conquistador]

Glenn,
          A very interesting piece.  Look at Worthington Games, "Cowboys - Way of the Gun", the game automatically has the generic townsfolk all armed with rifles.
                                                                                       Nick

Yes, I have learned a lot in just 10 (+/-) replies.  LAF is quite the spot to share information, and not just miniatures!

Gracias,

Glenn

[FifteensAway]

Nice discussion and helps explain why my old west collection has so many unarmed civilians.  Sure, my 'above the line talent' all have firearms (that's the white hat and black hat sorts - all in both mounted and foot variations), all of my military folk have weapons of course, and some of the native combatants have firearms but a lot don't and rely on 'natural' technology likes bows or lances.  But the vast majority of my civilian figures have no weapon at all - unless you call a shovel a weapon (only of much use close in).  Can't really recall whether very many of them have hand guns but I don't think so.

Now, if I only had time to get them all painted!  French and Indian War first.  Focus, focus, focus.

[Conquistador]

<snip>  Focus, focus, focus.

 

How many of us have said that...     

 

Gracias,

Glenn

[al will]

Another factor was accuracy. A long gun of the time was greatly more accurate than a hand gun. The hand gun was only accurate at close quarters and even then only because six shots could be let loose in a short amount of time. After all the Gunfight of the OK Corral is estimated to have only taken thirty seconds.

Many western towns had gun ordinance that did not allow carrying of guns inside of the town limits. So while town folk may own guns, most would depend on the hired lawman to keep them safe. Even the lawmen like Wyatt Earp and Bat Matterson relate more stories of using the six shooter as a club than as a firearm. Though that doesn't make for exciting gaming. 

[Elbows]

Also, self-contained metallic cartridges were not cheap.  So while many families or people may have owned random firearms (hand-me-downs etc.) feeding them proved expensive and cost prohibitive for poorer folks.