*Update 8: painted continentals* WGF AWI range!

[flags_of_war]

I think these figures are actually ok. They are certainly gameable as intended and not the detail of a 54mm Pegaso that it seems some expect.

Im sure many will see them as welcomed addition to the hobby. The hobby is too small for constant belittling of gamers, companies and sculptors. If you don't like sonething don't buy it. Go and play with some of the blobs of lead from yesteryear.

[Dr Mathias]

I'm sorry to see this thread is taking on a tone I typically see on other forums like Steve Dean and TMP. I hope it isn't a new trend for LAF in general.

[ARKOUDAKI]

I'm sorry to see this thread is taking on a tone I typically see on other forums like Steve Dean and TMP

Seriously, I don't think so at all...I can obviously see the utter disappointment at the WF AWI first release, as expectations were high, in part to WF way of doing things...and that comes through in the discussion. The bottom line is that WF adopted a build it and they will come mentality...instead of making sure what they built was what customers really wanted...they have the right period but the figs presented thus far are lacking in a lot of respects...that said, some of the bits looks useful and there is hope that the other boxes in the range - Continentals, American militia, and Indians - will be better...I myself have high hopes for the Indians!

Finally, I really think it is wrong to compare the tone in these threads with something bad...and TMP isn't close, where most of the posts are just plain stupid...so much so that I seldom go there anymore...while at the SD Forum I have always found the members extremely supportive and helpful...it doesn't mean you always agree with one another...we don't, as people don't...but it also doesn't mean that you attack individuals just because you don't like what they are saying...the bottom line is to each his/her own...if the WF figs are great for you then that is all that matters.

Now more kisses to all...and yes Arthur, your post made me laugh aloud...good job on the sarcasm! 

[General Lee]

I think I'm going to block certain trolls so they can't post in here anymore. It's sad it has to come to this

[ARKOUDAKI]

I think I'm going to block certain trolls so they can't post in here anymore. It's sad it has to come to this

Seriously, you really think you have such powers...and even if you did this would be your response...whatever floats your boat...it is after all a free world so you can do as you like...but given how helpful I have been to you in the past your reference to 'troll' is quite frankly hurtful...but whatever...life is too short. So Arthur, have a good life!

PS To clarify Arthur = Arthur and General Lee is also an Arthur...the first is in France and the second in Holland. Just to be clear.

[flags_of_war]

They are toy soldiers for crying out loud.

If you can do better than WF go ahead.

If you don't like the figures don't buy them.

Your constant criticism of everything is dull and boring now and does nothing but put people off coming to these forums.

[ARKOUDAKI]

Your constant criticism of everything is dull and boring now and does nothing but put people off coming to these forums.

Perhaps if took the time to read the post you would see that I already said many times it doesn't matter what anyone else says if you like the thing...beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder. That said, achieving a degree of historical accuracy (or in figure design, accuracy in human anatomy) is required....

I find people so quick to attack others are ones that don't necessarily do the research themselves...but then again, some people don't make the effort to get it right despite all the help given to them...after all, you can lead a horse to water, throw the horse in the water, but you can't necessarily make the horse drink.

[Dr Mathias]

Arkoudaki, I feel your first post in this thread was already set on being defensive and argumentative.

...but please don't bring me over your wife that fell out of the ugly tree numerous times and try and convince me she is really a beauty queen...

No one in this thread tried to convince you that these figures are "beauty queens"... you're obviously bringing baggage over from another forum.

Is your goal in posting to get people to avoid buying these? I'm genuinely wondering what your angle is. Did anyone really try to tell you that your aesthetic inclinations are wrong?  

As Captain Blood said there are clear anatomical issues with some shoulders and some poses are on the rigid side.
 
Folds don't mimic reality of the historical fabric/cut of clothing used- this can be mitigated to some extent by not highlighting them as much as typical in mini painting. I think some people don't like painting folds and these will be easier for them to do. Whatever else a person says, I do think these are very paintable figures and are suited to people of all levels of skill.

Pistols are wrong for left hand. That's an error- I've not found an example of a pistol with a mechanism on the left side, but I wouldn't be shocked if someone somewhere on earth had one made in reverse. I will admit when I built the figures I didn't notice this because I never planned to use a left hand pistol on a figure. I can see this error happening really easily due to the complexity of the kit, and the fact that digital sculptors save time by 'mirroring' or 'reflecting' elements. If I may say so one of WGF's weaknesses is using extensive copy/paste and mirroring to produce all the bits they include. I've told them that directly. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, if I'd been shown the renders before tooling I am quite certain I would not have caught it. Obviously the arm should have been mirrored independently of the pistol. Some customers may care, some may not. I think we can all agree it is not a critical component and is probably largely 'unhistorical' anyway.

Arkdoudaki commented on the blue. That's my fault, its too bright in the photo. The blue is slightly darker in real life. I should have compensated for it or digitally altered the photo (which I hate doing in principle). As Captain Blood could likely tell you digital cameras tend to oversaturate reds and blues.

Missing canteen straps. Unfortunate to be sure, unless you hate painting lots of straps. I'm very sure you've heard people griping about painting straps before. I could have painted them on to some degree, but WGF wants the kits to be constructed stock as much as possible, so I don't do any conversions, greenstuff, or putty work. I recall a person many years ago being upset with receiving a Games Workshop vampire figure that had painted on detail that wasn't physically present, so I'm reluctant to do it. Customers should know what they're getting.

I think it is okay to question decisions like designing the British early war and Continentals later war. WGF answered that question elsewhere- stating that they wanted to go for each side's 'iconic look'. I can respect that although it wouldn't be my personal preference.

Despite these criticisms, I still like the figures.

Arkoudaki, I sincerely hope that you have made your opinions known to WGF directly- as you're clearly passionate about the period. Reading through your faint praise/criticism posts it seems like you want them to improve rather than leave the market entirely. Hoping that they notice comments on various internet forums isn't going to help anything- so I really do think you should approach WGF with concerns about folds etc. If the last couple kits haven't gone to tooling they may have time to make tweaks.

I think WGF has shown clear improvement over the last several kits, and they do respond to constructive criticism. I can give examples if necessary.

And in case it isn't clear to readers, I likely have some bias in this matter as I paint many of WGF's figures used for their marketing. I'd like to think I tend to be 'middle of the road' in my observations though and I do want WGF to succeed and produce kits that have broad appeal and as much accuracy as possible.

[ARKOUDAKI]

Thanks for your input Dr Matthias...a good overview of the comments.

I personally have no side to take on these figs...in fact, I was really hoping they would be better...perhaps I am feeling let down by the end product given I had high expectations of what WF could do. As you and most people know, WF initial releases in plastic were, well, to be frank, pretty bad. However, they have learned a lot and I have seen a steady increase in quality. WF WW2 figs were generally quite good, despite some issues with the CAD design and errors in basic items...the Russians being I think their best set. Likewise, WF survivor figs (men and women) were a real step forward for them. Based on those achievements I thought they would do much much better on the AWI releases...and perhaps they will if they listen to customers. FYI, I am by no way an expert in the AWI period...but others have offered their advice in a friendly and constructive manner...I do have a good idea of design, production, and marketing...and in this regard WF have not taken full advantage of the CAD design and 3D printing facilities to iron out all these basic issues prior to moving to tooling. There are loads of people out there in the community with a great deal of knowledge, and most are quite willing to share. Is really making such basic observations so bad... If so, well, what can I say...I tried to help...with many many years working in the industry and knowing what works and doesn't I do think I know what I am talking about.

You mention that I should give all this info to WF...to be honest, after reading WF's own forum I see little benefit in helping a firm that clearly doesn't think it needs any help and who berates any comments that aren't stating these figs are wonderful!

Let me be crystal clear, there is no hidden agenda whatsoever. This is not about going after WF...I want them to be successful, I truly do...but if you can't get basic anatomy correct along with making basic weapons (the left-handed lock on the pistols was something someone else said but if true - and you indicate it is - would be a basic and senseless error) then there isn't a whole lot of hope.

Yet let me state once again, if a person likes these figs - and there are things to like - and they want them, then that is all that matters.

Now as you say you are affiliated with WF - and by the way, let me state yet again, a really nice paint job! (the comment about the blue wasn't derogatory in any way but more of one out of interest in the color used  ) - then I think you should share the info with them...as perhaps they will listen to you...after all, as another poster stated, their director of many things doesn't seem too interested in hearing facts.

Again, please don't take any of this the wrong way - many do because they don't actually read what is said and instead attack because it doesn't fit their views - as I appreciate your views, as you have the figs, made them up, and painted them...so you have firsthand knowledge of the subject!

In closing, can you at least share with us if the Woodland Indians and other figs in the range are better than the initial release in terms of anatomy (ex shoulder size), dress (those pants...), and equipment (ex guns and such)? Please do share...I want to be a believe but need to be convinced...

[Dr Mathias]

basic weapons (the left-handed lock on the pistols was something someone else said but if true - and you indicate it is - would be a basic and senseless error) then there isn't a whole lot of hope.

I double checked on this just to be sure- and I need to clarify as I made a mistake and was mixed up on the two kits.

The British command sprue has four pistols with integrated arm. One right hand, three left hands. On the left hands, the flintlock mechanism is on the left side (as held by the bearer).

The Continental command sprue has two pistols with integrated arms, one right, one left. Both have the flintlock mechanism on the right side (as held by the bearer).

My guess is that the Brits were done first, as they're out first- and someone caught the error before tooling the Continentals.

The upside to this is that the pistols are corrected, and a person can build a duel-pistol-wielding badass Continental officer.
The downside to this is that a person can build a duel-pistol-wielding badass Continental officer.

In closing, can you at least share with us if the Woodland Indians and other figs in the range are better than the initial release in terms of anatomy (ex shoulder size), dress (those pants...), and equipment (ex guns and such)? Please do share...I want to be a believe but need to be convinced...

Stylistically the three initial sets are similar- I feel like the militia don't have the obviously wide shoulders seen on some of the British and Continentals- except for the hunting shirt fringe issue that has already been noted here. The folds are not as prominent on the militia breeches either- it could very well be that after tooling the Brits, WGF decided to tone down the folds on the Militia. For a variety of reasons they are my favorite of the sets at this point, and I think that there are some signs of improvement.

Sadly I've only seen the box art on the Indians thus far.

I've not had real discussions about the production process on these, so I don't really know what set was done first and what criticisms were noted and addressed as they moved on to subsequent kits.  

[Lt. Hazel]

Ok enough is enough. No more WGF bashing, I am getting tired of it. And I HAVE the power to lock things.

[Furt]

The downside to this is that a person can build a duel-pistol-wielding badass Continental officer.

I was just pondering the same thing, but for use in conversions.

I want to make a couple of dual pistol wielding 18th century zombie slayers and am wondering if these sprues could be useful?

You don't know how they'd compare size wise to a Frontrank SYW mini would you Dr Mathias?

And BTW very nice painting on these.

[Dr Mathias]

I was just pondering the same thing, but for use in conversions.

I want to make a couple of dual pistol wielding 18th century zombie slayers and am wondering if these sprues could be useful?

You don't know how they'd compare size wise to a Frontrank SYW mini would you Dr Mathias?

I suspect that people will do a lot of cool things with these, not just straight AWI. I personally am leaning more toward 'Sleepy Hollow' in what I plan to do. I think with some head swaps some of the militia will do for revolting Haitians and other spin offs.

I'm just dipping in so I don't have any Front Rank, just Perry and WGF.

[Mindenbrush]

I think the Front Rank pistols may be slightly too big, picture is of the Front Rank 18C weapon sprue and Perry plastic French Dragoon sprue.

[Suetonius Paullinus]

Final version of my test figure:



I've painted only the sculpted part of the white tape on the tricorn and added a strap for the canteen.
I can now start with the rest of them 

Cheers

SP