What matters more? Lead vs Paint

[Dr DeAth]

Logic would dictate it's the painting that makes the difference. If you gave 10 different painters the same 'great' casting, it's unlikely that they would all produce 'great' paint jobs.  As the casting is the same, it must be the paint job, no?  

I think it's really a combination of the two, to get a great miniature you need a good sculpt and a good pain job, any other combination will result in something between sh!t and good.

[gary42]

Good sculpt + bad paint = bad mini
Good sculpt + good paint = good mini
Bad sculpt + bad paint = bad mini
Bad sculpt + good paint = passable mini

Sculpt has it by a nose... IMHO:)

[FramFramson]

Sculpting, without a doubt.
Colouring in the miniature is not art, it's craft

Agreed. I don't mean to sound like I'm slagging on the painting aspect, but I've always felt that for me and many others painting minis is like filling in a colouring book. How much raw unbridled creativity is there in choosing the right shade of feldgrau for wehrmacht uniforms?

That said, there are certainly exceptions where painters have run wild with great ideas to really put a new spin on another person's sculpture. But these tend to be few and far between.

I suppose others in this thread lean the other way, preferring to call it art. Me I used to do the real thing (for 20+ years) and minis painting has never felt that way to me, not even close. But there's nothing to be ashamed of in studiously working at a craft.

EDIT: In any case I really don't mind of other people want to call what they do 'art'. The term is so subjective and malleable anyway that arguments over it tend to get silly fast - so who am I to impose myself like that? I can only speak from my own experiences.

[Vanvlak]

It's like cooking: a really bad cook can take fillet steak and turn it into something that tastes like stewed sock and dumplings, and a really good cook can make any old bit of sow meat and make it mouthwatering.

But....I'm vegetarian - no wonder I never finish my modelling projects 

Having fun, whether it's sculpting, converting, scratchbuilding, kitbashing or painting, matters most, unless you're into this commercially.

[gary42]

Yah!  If it's fun it's good!  Even great!!

[jthomlin]

Good v Bad comparisons:

• Tom Meier figures painted with poster colours using a 1/2 inch brush by a 3yr old.
• 1990 vintage Irregular Miniatures painted in historical tones with contrast enhancing lining.

Painting affects both those examples, whereas sculpting is irrelevant in the first and distance dependant in the second, and it's not like I specified Michelangelo for the painting ...).

Why?

• Painting is done last and can compensate to a degree for any inadequacies in the sculpting.
• You see colour before shape, if the colours are 'off' it doesn't matter how good the sculpting is.
• In fact the better the sculpting, the better the painting needs to be, or you would be better off with no paint at all!

Cheers!
Joe Thomlinson

[Mitch K]

Sums it up perfectly Mitch  


That's a debate that's been had many times before, and not everyone would agree with you.
Some people paint toy soldiers using repetitive steps, learned technical skills, and no imagination - that's craft.
Some people paint toy soldiers creatively using imagination, invention, and a level of skill which transcends mere craft. That surely counts as art.

Ayethankewe

On the second point, a friend of mine, who paints abstracts and sculpts with glass, when he really feels like having a go at me, tells me I'm not an artist, merely an "illustrator"

[Cubs]

In any case I really don't mind of other people want to call what they do 'art'. The term is so subjective and malleable anyway that arguments over it tend to get silly fast - so who am I to impose myself like that? I can only speak from my own experiences.

A fine and balanced reply sir, I shall buy you a dandelion and burdock for that. Therein lies the issue with the term 'artist'; it is indeed so vague that everyone becomes an artist. You are therefore left with art you appreciate and art you don't, and thus artists you do and don't.

I see myself as an artist (check my passport, it's there) and a truly brilliant one at that. As worshipped and adored as I currently am, I predict after my lifetime it will be even more so, to the extent that the Isle of Man will be named after me and a research facility set up to bring me back from the grave, possibly using seal vivisection.

PS. Captain Blood's stuff doesn't count as an art because he's just copying me, especially when it looks better than mine.

[matakishi]

Good sculpt + bad paint = bad mini
Good sculpt + good paint = good mini
Bad sculpt + bad paint = bad mini
Bad sculpt + good paint = passable mini

Sculpt has it by a nose... IMHO:)

Whilst your examples are spot on your conclusion is not backed up by them.
The common factor in good and passable is good paint and the common factor in bad is bad paint.
Paint is the decider according to your table.

[Captain Blood]

PS. Captain Blood's stuff doesn't count as an art because he's just copying me, especially when it looks better than mine.

I really don't think my stuff ever looks better than yours.
But since all great artists are wracked with self-doubt, it just goes to show that painting miniatures must indeed be an art

[Cubs]

I really don't think my stuff ever looks better than yours.
But since all great artists are wracked with self-doubt, it just goes to show that painting miniatures must indeed be an art

We must now don pretentious clothing and admire each other's work, then wander off to Sweden to stare out of the window in black and white.

[Dolmot]

It's just fun and games unless somebody loses an ear.

[Overlord]

Paint vs sculpt can't be easily defined, but of the two I would probably favour painting.  There is however a middle ground where the combination of a good sculpt with quality painting produces something better than the individual parts.  My own efforts are usually better if I like the sculpt first, maybe because I make more of an effort to do the miniature justice.

I would put myself in the craft camp.  My painting style is adapted from others (largely Dallimore) and is more a process that inspired 'art'.  I often struggle with colour combinations and do copy examples painted by others.  I'm not an artist, but I would consider that some painters are.

We must now don pretentious clothing and admire each other's work, then wander off to Sweden to stare out of the window in black and white.

I think Hammers beat all of us to that one.... 

[gary42]

Whilst your examples are spot on your conclusion is not backed up by them.
The common factor in good and passable is good paint and the common factor in bad is bad paint.
Paint is the decider according to your table.

Hey,  I'm an artist not a math science guy!

Still think Minis painting is technique and sculpting is the art though... So please disregard previous spot on table...

[Blackwolf]

This is so subjective; I would consider a old fashioned cabinet maker an artist(for example) just by the usage of materials,workmanship and the all important thing,style.Et cetera.Therefore we have some figure painters,they are very good technically,however they lack something; style. Once a good figure painter acquires his own 'style' he then becomes an artist.There are many painters,sculptors,modellers and even writers on this forum (Jim Hale for example) who are immediately recognisable because of their style and are therefore artists.
 Disclaimer; I dislike my usage of the word style,however my expression is less than good,I am no writer... ,and have no style,groan