Dark Ages, where to go from here.

[Old Guy]

Dux Britanniarum got me interested in the Dark Ages, specifically the period around the fall of the Roman Empire and a few hundred years later, maybe till the Vikings turn up at a push. But I would like to move on as I am not as keen on Dux B as I was.

I have Dux Bellorum but I am not sure that is what I am looking for, I have heard and read good things about WAB and the Arthurian supplement but I believe these are now hard to find and if you do they cost a Tribune's Tribute!

So what about War & Conquest, someone tells me these are WAB but better.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Cubs]

There's always 'SAGA', for a bit of fun between a wargame and a board game.

Then you've got 'Clash of Empires' (also deliberately written to replace WAB) and their 'Age of Ravens' supplement.

The WAB rulebooks aren't that pricey now if you shop about for a bit, but the Arthurian supplement is harder to find.

[scarabminiatures]

Pictures of a War & Conquest Dark Age battle here http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1630

A non Dark Age War & Conquest battle report and pictures here http://scarabminiatures.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=950

which was written to show some of the rules in action and you can browse the forum for all the free army lists (over 500) and read other topics

[Nord]

Opposite way round for me, played Saga for a year or so, going to try DuxBrit at some time. Saga is a very light game, if you are a serious historical gamer it might not work for you, but if you realise it's a game more than anything else, it's a decent way to spend an evening. I did try DuxBellorum but it didn't quite work for me either.

Next on my list (apart from DuxBrit) is maybe Clash of Empires, maybe Hail Caesar. They are both mass battle which puts me off a bit, though you can (apparently) play HC with small bases, there's no reason why it shouldn't work for 70 - 100 figs per side. We shall see. The good thing about it is that it's down to the player to decide how many figures per unit.

[Old Guy]

Saga wouldn't work for me as it is battles I want to fight, not especially huge battles but something which looks like I have brought my followers and allies to the field rather than the lads I found around the bar. Dux B would probably still fill that gap but my love affair with it is over.

I look in now and again on several blogs and many of them seem to be having great fun with WAB or WAC games, and they look terrific. I say Dark Ages but I have a fondness for Late Romans, so would probably be looking at 400-600 AD.

[Cubs]

Well, the 'Fall of the West' WAB supplement is a little easier to find I think and that would fit your wants better than the specific Arthurian one.

[Mitch K]

I'd go with Dux Brit - there's a lot of play in it, especially with the raider supplement, and it requires relatively few figures. WAB Age of Arthur gets to go for something more like a King's Ransom - and that's before you build a couple of 100-odd figure armies

[Old Guy]

As I said originally I don't want to go any further with Dux Brit, and the Raider supplement for me has just added even more confusion to the game. The Irish chariot sniper was probably the last straw. I am now almost certain to go along the WAC route.


My thanks to all who took the time to reply.

[TWD]

The Age of Arthur supplement for WAB is superb, and I think would cover exactly what you want. Late Romans, Welsh, Saxons, Picts various different options for portraying "historical" Arthurs if that's your bag, nicely balanced but flavoursome armies.
If you can I'd spend the money and hunt down a copy I would, they do sometimes turn up cheap. Either version of the WAB rules works well, personally i don't think the second edition "improved" the game in any way, but most players moved over to it, so that's what I tend to use.
There's at least a couple of events using the supplement played each year if you like that sort of social gaming.
Quite a few reports and the like over on my blog:
tomstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Age%20of%20Arthur

I've not played WAC, but it looks interesting. The advantage there being that the army lists are free (and I think there are some for the period you're looking for).

I've played some Dux Bellorum and it is a step up in scale from Dux Brit. I didn't enjoy Dux Brit, but liked the simplicity but larger scale of Dux Bell and am thinking of digging the sabot bases out again. It is specifically for the period you're interested in and Dan Mersey the author does a good job of supporting it over on the Boardgame geek forums.

So the money no object choice would be WAB, but you may have to settle for WAC. Wile you're building up the forces (or remortgaging the house to buy the supplement) for those two you could give Dux bell a try.

[WillieB]

I'm still firmly in the Dux Brittaniarum camp, and will probably remain there for the rest of my Dark Ages wargaming 'carreer'

So, once that confession made let's take a look at some other rulesets. We tried Dux Bellorum but whilst occasinally giving a very satisfying game we also got 'stuck' several times. Units that could keep on figting ad perpetum with one side attacking and the other rallying and de- fending. Oddly enough attacking that defending unit with more than one only made it worse. I guess some basic rule somewhere went wrong.
Strange as it's predeccessor worked fine.

As for the 'scale up' from Dux Brittaniarum. We've played Dux Brit games with over 150 figures on each side and it worked like a charm.
In fact tomorrow we'll be playing one of our end- of campaign- battles where approx. 120 Saxons will face about 80 Romano British supported by at least 40 mercenaries.

I never liked WAB as I always saw it as a float to sell as many figures as possible. Moreover any game system where working out a 'good' list is the key to succes on a gaming table gets a thumbs down from me. That said I really liked the supplements like the Arthurian one, Shieldwall and Fall Of The West for their backgronds. Truthfully the Warhammer style lists possibly made me shy away.

Same goes for Hail Caesar but to a lesser extent.

War & Conquest looks promising and I'll take another look at it, but probably not before I explored all the possibilities of Dux Brittaniarum.

[LeadAsbestos]

The Age of Arthur WAB book is excellent, and well worth the money, just to kick up your enthusiasm. I have the Dux Brit books for much the same reason, tho I keep thinking I can use the campaign system to play Trojan War games, and that seems much more interesting than a Dark Ages campaign to me, for whatever reason.

Want a fun game that you can sucker just about anyone into playing, often w/ great results? Try Song of Arthur and Merlin, by Ganesha Games. Small skirmish, easy and fun rules. meant to be played instead of dwelled over. I can't say enough good things about it.

[Old Guy]

I won't give up on Dux Willie, I have invested too much money in it, but I won't be doing anything with the Raiders. Trying to explain the rules to new players is a major headache, I have up to four pages of interpretations/explanations taken from the forums or groups.

That said I want to take my Dark Ages forward to big battles with loads of troops on the table and I like the look of the WAB/WAC style of game. So I have to save my pocket money up but also persuade my wife that I need new armies, guess which will be the hardest.

Thanks guys.

[julesav]

You could take a look at Dux Bellorum by Osprey?

[warburton]

I personally don't like Warhammer, but I do second the suggestions that you get the WAB Age of Arthur book. It is worth it for the background and inspirational pictures alone. It is perhaps perhaps the best produced WAB book of all.

I like War & Conquest, or for skirmishes there is an Arthurian version of Song of Blades and Heroes (I have it, but I have not played it).