are french artillery and heavy weapons crew stupid ?

[pacofeanor]

folks, the tunics are wrong for WW2.
have a look at the woodbine british artillery men, they are as generic as can be: shirtsleeves, pants, puttees, boots and suspenders. Choose any heads You like and they are right. Only problem could be the shells.
watch my thread, You will soon se them painted up, although not for WW2.
for tunics you need fold down collars

btw, I believe that only the large calibre gun picture is WW2, not the others.
edit: hihi, how stupid of me, the name in the first picture is a clear hint - I wonder how much of that kit is US?

and to answer the question, the uniform would have been moutarde, unless for reserve troops wearing old horizon blue - beweare of "greenish khaki", it tends to be too US-olive

the jacket is the comon uniform for artillery men and cavalry men (because they use to ride or to make moves for loading )even if they have a particular coat for rain or snow ( a 30cm cut with buttons at the low back for riding on horse) , the "capote" (ie coat) is for infantry men and is the main (and only!) uniform for campaigning. Most of 30's and 40's photos show garison troops or second line ones (1939 phoney war);  in jackets and not fighting troops on the battle field (unfortunatly they had no time to take photos in may and june 40 !!! )

but this is a realy aplied rule to wear the capote as a fighting uniforme, and in campaign, the french soldier has only a half blanket for the feet, the capote making the difference for the up part of the body!

The woodbine  british artillery men are perfect for desert countries or western june 40 front , but for the narvik project we have with Lou passejair, they are a bit "undressed"

on the three photos, i think they could have been taken in 1940 or just before the war , the first and fourth ones show a 1922 or 1938 jacket with flat colalr, the second  one show 1926 helmets ;  they wear the definit kaki, more darker than mustard one . The third photo with artillery men (most have the 1915 helmet) show the gaz mask patern 1931. as the artillery men have keep horizon blue very lately ( the most part of new kaki uniforms was distributed for mobilisation!) it is a 1939-40 photo!

The difference between mustard 1915 kaki and "darker" 1935 one is real . In 1940 there is no long mustard as the african troops were the first to receive the new kaki (some sergnets keep some mustard uniforms for ""parade dress " with new color stripin , brass buttons etc ...) th e "metropolitan" troops kipping horizon blue until 1938-39. at the mobilisation, kaki suit were genraly distributed for all troops ! the french kaki is very close to the british early WWII one!


Some horizon blue uniforms were used at the end of the campaign for third or fourth line troops (is there still a front line ?)  but with a olive drab kaki over suit on ! (they look like more modern with there olive drab simple jacket and pants than kaki "poilu" with putties, capotes etc .... !!!!) but no first or even second line troops fought in horizon blue in 1939 - 1940! it is a myth !

best regards
paco

[former user]

ah, THX for the clarification!
Do You have an example for the 1940 khaki?

[lou passejaire]

but for our narvik project, i have not seen a single photo of a single capote ... i have seen some officers in cape ( chasseurs alpins officers ), some "royale" officers in coat, some 342 CACC rank and files in what seem's to be overalls .
and not a single capote .

there is an example for the 1940 khaki ( and it's not quite different from the British one )



( and the "vareuse" ( jacket) worn by the sergent was worn, for exemple , by "corps francs" and other "elite" units, and even civilian clothes   ... )

I hate all those french infantry and artillery models in full kit !

[former user]

it's hard to tell in the light - it appears a bit lighter and more reddish than the british khaki....

[lou passejaire]

i think that its the lights . but it's a real 1940 uniform . and green pigment fades a lot .

british khaki is a little on the red side
french khaki is a little on the green side

i think that this re-enactors group photo ( with no problems of artificial light ) show the perfect new uniform french khaki .

[former user]

oh, well, it's different from moutarde, that's the important thing - which shade of caca it is doesn't matter in the end 

[FramFramson]

the jacket is the comon uniform for artillery men and cavalry men (because they use to ride or to make moves for loading )even if they have a particular coat for rain or snow ( a 30cm cut with buttons at the low back for riding on horse) , the "capote" (ie coat) is for infantry men and is the main (and only!) uniform for campaigning. Most of 30's and 40's photos show garison troops or second line ones (1939 phoney war);  in jackets and not fighting troops on the battle field (unfortunatly they had no time to take photos in may and june 40 !!! )

but this is a realy aplied rule to wear the capote as a fighting uniforme, and in campaign, the french soldier has only a half blanket for the feet, the capote making the difference for the up part of the body!

The woodbine  british artillery men are perfect for desert countries or western june 40 front , but for the narvik project we have with Lou passejair, they are a bit "undressed"

on the three photos, i think they could have been taken in 1940 or just before the war , the first and fourth ones show a 1922 or 1938 jacket with flat colalr, the second  one show 1926 helmets ;  they wear the definit kaki, more darker than mustard one . The third photo with artillery men (most have the 1915 helmet) show the gaz mask patern 1931. as the artillery men have keep horizon blue very lately ( the most part of new kaki uniforms was distributed for mobilisation!) it is a 1939-40 photo!

The difference between mustard 1915 kaki and "darker" 1935 one is real . In 1940 there is no long mustard as the african troops were the first to receive the new kaki (some sergnets keep some mustard uniforms for ""parade dress " with new color stripin , brass buttons etc ...) th e "metropolitan" troops kipping horizon blue until 1938-39. at the mobilisation, kaki suit were genraly distributed for all troops ! the french kaki is very close to the british early WWII one!


Some horizon blue uniforms were used at the end of the campaign for third or fourth line troops (is there still a front line ?)  but with a olive drab kaki over suit on ! (they look like more modern with there olive drab simple jacket and pants than kaki "poilu" with putties, capotes etc .... !!!!) but no first or even second line troops fought in horizon blue in 1939 - 1940! it is a myth !

best regards
paco

Hm! All very good and useful information.

So if you had local veterans or reserves (probably infantry rather than artillery) called for something temporary (natural disaster, keeping order, etc.) in 1935-36, what would the odds be of their being dressed in horizon blue? I mean, I think you could probably paint either and be fine for game purposes, but I'm curious about what - if anything -would be "correct".

[former user]

not so simple....
the moment France mobilizes the whole army once the german leviathan is on the march, any reserve unit in horizon blue could be in the line of fire of the blitzkrieg. But I would be inclined to agree with our french experts here and keep it khaki in 1940 in the field

[lou passejaire]

expert ? no, i'm not old enough ... it takes 300 years to be an expert in  french army 

may be because of system D ( which is "give me a canon de 75, an old american truck, and i make one efficent AT gun )

but system D was a mater of intelligence of low rank officers, Nco's and mechanics .
regulation was the lack of intelligence of the old fossils of the staff ... 

[FramFramson]

not so simple....
the moment France mobilizes the whole army once the german leviathan is on the march, any reserve unit in horizon blue could be in the line of fire of the blitzkrieg. But I would be inclined to agree with our french experts here and keep it khaki in 1940 in the field

But in '35?...

[former user]

in '35 there was no mobilized wartime army, only the small peacetime army, so no need to use old stocks....
and don't expect anyone to wear horizon blue in the colonies outside the garisson.

Although I could imagine semi-military police to wear old uniforms in africa, but I don't really know.

There was a revival of the pre WW1 uniform in the 30ies, but only for ceremonial duties and mainly for officers

what is it that You are asking around like a fox circles the hens?   

[FramFramson]

Moutarde Khaki is probably best then!  

[former user]

oh, come on, tell!

[FramFramson]

But I did already in the other thread! I'm trying to figure out what to use for interwar "call-up" troops: Veterans or local recruits rung up for natural disasters, controlling unrest, etc. I like the lighter kit (such as what the artillery men were shown with and I'm sure infantry possessed) rather than the full campaign greatcoat for that.

I will probably be converting some British WWI figures. That seems like the easiest way.

[former user]

what other thread?