(Kickstarter) Dungeon Scenics and other weirdness

[robh]

ADW, the team behind the aborted Gnome War Kickstarter have launched a small new Kickstarter campaign.

Not getting involved with Ganesha this time they are limiting it to their own sculptings/castings. Amongst a strange selection of "historic" sea monsters and more Ice Age/Prehistoric Giant Beasts are the resin Fantasy scenery and spell effects they had before. With extra scenery aimed especially at 25/28mm Dungeon Crawler/ Fantasy skirmish games.

3D spell effects, Monster Lairs, selection of Mushrooms/Fungi, Dungeon dressings (ruined furniture, treasure piles etc) with some themed "sets" as stretch goals: Bar-room/Brewhouse, Sacrificial Alter set, Sewer set).  Pretty much all going to be pick & choose your own lots. Also they are very keen to get backers suggesting sets or pieces they would like to see done.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dinaandrewswalker/28mm-miniature-sea-monsters-dungeon-terrain-and-bi

And Sea Monsters.......totally, totally bizarre.

[Elbows]

Not going to lie..didn't see anything remotely interesting in that Kickstarter.  Talk about the most niche market you could possibly aim at (which to me, always seems like a poor business decision).  I don't see the market for ye-olde-illustrated sea monsters.  Then again, maybe I'm wrong.

[wolfie907]

their sculpts look like the work of a 5 year old

[Malebolgia]

Oh my lord...those sculpts are dire!

[beefcake]

Hmm, no.
The sculpts need a lot of work, it would probably work better for them to hire a professional sculptor. They have the art to work from so a good sculptor could come up with interesting poses for them I'm sure.

[Major_Gilbear]

Complete and utter rubbish; looking through their previous four KS projects, I don't think that I'd be rushing to throw money at crap like this:





I mean, it almost looks like a scam, especially with dishonesty like this:



Seriously, I've flushed better-looking turds. 

[robh]

Does not seem to matter that they have plastered "WORK IN PROGRESS" over all the pictures does it?  They get criticised for not showing pictures, then they get criticised when they do.

You are dismissing pieces at not much more than this stage of construction:


They sculpt with a traditional technique used on bronzes and much larger scale figures (and previously by MiniFigs) not the wargame standard "green stuff" build up. So create a rough form excess and then refine down by carving, sanding and engraving.

Maybe doing it this way will not work in the end for small scale pieces , but I think you should probably wait until then to decide if you would rather play with your turds.

[Too Bo Coo]

In fariness, it looks pretty awful.  The two bowmen are not even the same mini, one has fur trim, the unpainted one has no fur trim. 

I took a quick look at their KS, and it really looks amateurish.  Who knows, perhaps something will change, but I wouldnt lay down any cash until I saw some dramatic improvements.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ robh:

Sorry, but are you seriously telling me that after three previous KS, they still haven't completed a single model?

That "bear/sloth-thing" above is apparently only awaiting eyes and a few minor details, having already been sculpted and sanded. They are/were expecting around $70 retail for it?!

Even these, which look finished and are not listed as WIPs, are barely average:




Not to do anyone a disservice, but that's more along the lines of what an average hobbyist could do with a plastic kiddies toy and some putty, not what you expect from a professional sculptor.

Also, reading through the comments in their KS, they seem to struggle with answering simple questions (or even being reasonable in some cases).

And finally, there are good reasons why miniatures are usually sculpted in certain ways and with certain materials. I wouldn't expect a life-size human sculpt in GS any more than I would expect a 28mm human sculpt in something like DAS modelling clay or bathroom silicone. Not to say that carving something down from a rougher starting point is wrong or anything (I've seen it done by talented miniature sculptors before), but I'm not really seeing that talent/expertise here.

[admiraldick]

@Elbows: considering the popularity of pirate games at the moment, the idea of some appropriate sea-monsters doesn't seem like such a bad idea. just not a very profitable one.

Does not seem to matter that they have plastered "WORK IN PROGRESS" over all the pictures does it?

sadly not, no.

writing 'work in progress' is not a get out of jail free card. there are hundreds of manufacturers competing for our interest (and money) so we have a very wide choice of excellent miniatures in a highly competitive market. if ADW Games wants to have a slice of that then they need to demonstrate quickly and efficiently that they have the ability to produce the goods.

I'm not a great sculptor, but I know enough to say that if I was going to make some great miniatures I would not start with the WIPs that ADW are showing us. they are obviously lacking in the technical skills and understanding to produce wargames miniatures and look far more like art projects.

add on to that that there are very few complete miniatures shown, none or which are cast and painted up. more miniatures would give an indication that they might be able to produce anything in quantity, but instead we can see 3 cancelled kickstarters which rather implies the opposite.

They sculpt with a traditional technique used on bronzes and much larger scale figures (and previously by MiniFigs) not the wargame standard "green stuff" build up. So create a rough form excess and then refine down by carving, sanding and engraving.

that is very interesting, but its doesn't produce the results they are looking for. the miniatures they have made are passable as components for a miniatures based board game, but wouldn't work in most people's miniatures collections. if i put any of their prehistoric animals next to any of my other prehistoric animals, they would look jarringly out of place.

It seems fairly obvious to be that this company is the pet project of someone who has been trained in other forms of arts. if they want to get serious with sculpting miniatures that other people want, then they need to realise that the skills they have already might not be transferable and they will need to learn new ones (such as how to run a Kickstarter campaign to pique people's interests rather than put them off).

[phreedh]

In fariness, it looks pretty awful.  The two bowmen are not even the same mini, one has fur trim, the unpainted one has no fur trim.

Even better mate, I'm fairly certain they're not miniatures. One is a an un-skinned render, the other is a textured render unless my old eyes deceive me.

[Major_Gilbear]

One is a an un-skinned render, the other is a textured render unless my old eyes deceive me.

They do not. Hence my earlier comment:

I mean, it almost looks like a scam, especially with dishonesty like this:

Despite the label over the image, there is nothing painted in that picture. Honest, huh? 

[Too Bo Coo]

Even better mate, I'm fairly certain they're not miniatures. One is a an un-skinned render, the other is a textured render unless my old eyes deceive me.

Good catch!

[Timbor]

I wouldn't say the creator seems dishonest (unless it's Tony Reidy hiding behind the name) but it does come across as somewhat less polished than I would expect.  The finished sculpts for the terrorbirds in their previous campaign looked ok:



My main concern is that the creator is planning to complete all of the sculpts in 20 days.  That's 10 sea monsters, a big bunch of dungeon terrain, and 5 big beasts.  No way you can get that many sculpts done in only 20 days and have them anywhere near professional quality.

One comparison comes to mind - the 'monthly challenge' for hasslfree miniatures.  Kev White chooses ~5 human sized models and sculpts them in a month.  That's it.  Sometimes he doesn't even finish them in that time.

I am all for seeing amateur sculptors hone their skills and improve, but the reality is that it is the same process to mould and cast a poorly sculpted figure as it does a masterpiece, so usually there is not a huge discrepancy in price between the two at the selling end. 

So far the quality is underwhelming, and the concept art is rather... niche...

[nic-e]

Does not seem to matter that they have plastered "WORK IN PROGRESS" over all the pictures does it?  They get criticised for not showing pictures, then they get criticised when they do.

You are dismissing pieces at not much more than this stage of construction:


They sculpt with a traditional technique used on bronzes and much larger scale figures (and previously by MiniFigs) not the wargame standard "green stuff" build up. So create a rough form excess and then refine down by carving, sanding and engraving.

Maybe doing it this way will not work in the end for small scale pieces , but I think you should probably wait until then to decide if you would rather play with your turds.

Sorry, but i carve in small scale and have actually carved for bronze casting before.
THIS is a small scale carving WIP in plaster done with the proper tools, it took me half an hour.


Carving in dry putty will not give a good effect, it isn't designed for large scale carving.
If you want to CARVE a figure, use a material that suits the medium.

I don't however believe that there is any malicious intent behind this campaign, and that the people running it are likely passionate about it and trying their best.(maybe they should hire some other sculptors, or maybe this is their vision and are hoping others enjoy it.)