Okay, riddle me this, Batman...

[Conquistador]

I read on the Reaper craft article ... about why you do or do not dilute paint... I still do not get why you do not dilute brush-on primer (never seen it mentioned anyway.)

It would seem like what is good for the goose (paint) would be good for the gander (primer) but I don't see that mentioned.  Why not?

Gracias,

Glenn

From the article:

"...To Thin or Not to Thin?

For those painters concerned chiefly with producing tabletop quality miniatures, applying paint straight from the bottle is generally sufficient for their aim and holds several advantages. It's quicker, saving time and enabling the artist to produce more work in a single sitting. When the paint is adequately shaken or stirred, it's consistent in both color and application, which is particularly advantageous to war-gamers, who often paint large batches of miniatures using the same colors. And finally, for the beginning painter, paint taken straight from the bottle allows for better brush control, as thicker paint generally clings to the brush more readily and doesn't slip and slide all over the place..."

... (discussion)

"... Unfortunately, thinned paint does carry one significant disadvantage. It's inherently difficult to control without practiced care and finesse, being readily susceptible to gravity and slips of the hand. Add this to an art that already requires a steady hand, and you soon find both seasoned painters with considerable brush control and learners alike abandoning the technique in favor of thicker, stickier yet relatively more well-behaved paint..."

[Dr.Falkenhayn]

 Reaper Paints are thinner in consistency than Vallejo,Foundry or GW they're more like Vallejo Air which also can be used straight from the Bottle for Painting with a Brush  

Personally i like Reaper Paints the most,i just can't afford them all the Time due to the lack of a local Supplier  

[obsidian3d]

The brush-on primer isn't as effective when you add water to it. It's generally not the same chemical make-up as normal paint. Good brush on primer will be thin enough so as not to obscure detail and will also have some ingredients in it that cause it to shrink more into the finer areas to provide a good primer coat.

[Connectamabob]

What Obsidian said, basically. Any paint loses durabilty and adhesion as you thin it, and primer's whole job is to wrassle slippery substrates so the "proper" paints don't have to. If your primer's too thick, that means you've got the wrong primer for the level of detail you're working with. Don't try to "fix" it by thinning it, just go looking for a primer that's formulated thinner to begin with.

[Conquistador]

What Obsidian said, basically. Any paint loses durabilty and adhesion as you thin it, and primer's whole job is to wrassle slippery substrates so the "proper" paints don't have to. If your primer's too thick, that means you've got the wrong primer for the level of detail you're working with. Don't try to "fix" it by thinning it, just go looking for a primer that's formulated thinner to begin with.

Tere are different viscosities of primer!??      Ye Gods, this painting thing gets yet more complicated!

Gracias,

Glenn

[Major_Gilbear]

Yes, there are different viscosities of most model primers/paints! 

Generally though, as mentioned above, they have different chemical make-ups; primer is often specifically formulated to "grip" the substrate material. Thinning it can be difficult and generally not very worthwhile compared to just getting the right stuff to start with.

[grant]

Vallejo Primers are great - they can be airbrushed or brushed on by hand. Really am a big fan of them, and have many colours.

I have a massive amount of Vallejo paints, and just started picking up Model Air to try them (first dozen or so on the table now!).

Didn't know that Reaper are thinner, I think I might have invested in that line, especially as the triad system is quite good in theory. It's how I buy my Vallejo paints generally anyway.

I use Vallejo thinners, plain water, or a 20:1 water/Flow-Aid mix to paint, all depending on what I am doing 

[Conquistador]

I have (metal unless stated otherwise) legacy 25+ mm (fair number of Bones in the last year,)  15 mm, 6 mm, 3 mm - I am hoping the same primer works on all of them?

Actually Bones can but should not be primed apparently from what I read...

Gracias,

Gleen

[Major_Gilbear]

I have (metal unless stated otherwise) legacy 25+ mm (fair number of Bones in the last year,)  15 mm, 6 mm, 3 mm - I am hoping the same primer works on all of them?

I assume you cannot use a rattlecan automotive spray primer for whatever reason (otherwise, it'd be my first choice of primer for metals)?

Therefore, spray aside, I think any thin primer will do all your scales.

I'd avoid gesso and suchlike though - I know some people really like it, but I don't think it has the longevity of "real" primers, and I don't think it's suitable for 6/3mm models.

Actually Bones can but should not be primed apparently from what I read...

I guess it depends on the primer.

A lot of hobby primers are not really primers; rather, they're just normal paint that's heavy and matte.

I would therefore think that the flexibility of the plastic, and the solvent used in the "Bones" formulation means that a lot of primers don't adhere to the surface well and crack off. However, I'd certain some will bond properly to the Bones plastic.

[Connectamabob]

I think Reaper "Bones" might be some type of vinyl. Enamels and laquers (auto primers are typically laquer) can often have a bad reaction to the plasticisers used in vinyls, causing them to stay permanently tacky.

Going by the sample they tossed in the box with one of my orders, Reaper paints are pretty nice, possibly comperable to Vallejo in both quality and handling characteristics.

[Major_Gilbear]

Yes, I've heard of the tacky finish too, although mostly with Heroclix style models.

I gather one solution was to spray varnish with a matte sealer first (in lieu of a primer) and then paint and seal over that as normal.

Another was to paint a thinned coat of PVA glue on first, then prime with spray, then paint as normal.

I guess in both of these cases, the idea is to avoid the aerosol primer reacting with the plastic.

[obsidian3d]

I'll also add a vote for the Vallejo airbrush primer. I prefer the grey one myself. I've used it with an airbrush as well as painted on and it is great stuff.

[FramFramson]

I use gesso myself and - horror of horrors! - add a bit of water (mainly to help with flow). Yes, it's significantly less resilient than other primers, but critically (to me) it is magnificently thin. It lasts long enough for me to paint the figure and that's good enough for me.

This does mean I have to be careful with paint adherence, but there again I often apply very thinly in multiple layers (the more I care about a mini or a part of a mini, like the face, the thinner the paint and the more layers I will use in applying colours).

All of that results in fragile paint jobs, but that's where a good strong varnish comes in.

[BigB]

I have used Gesso successfully but found it best to dry overnight (I live in Florida with insane humidity).  Gesso really tightens up when left to dry.  It initially looks like it would hide detail, but when totally dry it's great.

My latest favorite though is from Badger:   Stynlrez Primers.    I have BIG bottles in black, gray and white.  All are airbrush ready (duh) and extremely durable.  I was having trouble even scratching the primer with a metal sculpting tool.  It took significant pressure.  Fingernails didn't touch it.  And detail remains sharp.  I'm extremely happy with the bottles I got at Gencon.  I figure I have enough for 3-4 years worth as you use so much less in comparison to aerosol cans.

[FramFramson]

Yes, Gesso is for sure something you leave to fully dry. It's amazing how it flattens to near nothing.