Can the Jacobites win at Culloden??

[Lowtardog]

I think to be honest gents its one and all of the reasons already mentioned to a greater or lesser extent

Lots of reasons given, including the bayonet drill, however the wasnt much of a charge to close combat at Culloden and certainly whether the clans had taken fire for a lengthy time, it would have knocked their fire out of their bellies to press home, add in fatigue, a failing morale as they are after all retreating and were plagued by desserters, then a wall may become a redoubt, light horse , the heavy brigade😃

[THE CID]

What about a few years later then Culloden , a certain Braddock was massacred by native Americans in a forest in Canada.There are quite a few forests in Scotland, where an ambush could have been successful.

[carlos marighela]

You keep saying the Jacobites were levies and farmers, need I say what were the Boers.

Well for the most part they were racist, religious fundies, with a deep sense that they were God's chosen folk but racist religious fundies armed with breach loading rifles, firing smokeless cartridges effective out to 2,000 metres. They were also highly mobile, gifted with a life in the saddle and plenty of experience in shooting. They had a small but efficient artillery, equipped with modern guns and were further blessed with open terrain that allowed their weaponry to be utilised to its maximum effect. Axe wielding crofters they were not.

[Chesh]

A question; I know of the Warlord metals from the ECW age but who else does Highlanders for this period in 28mm?

[Shapur]

@ chesh

what do you mean by this period 1645 (ECW) or 1745 (jacobites)?

Front Rank does have a nice range of jacobites and so does redout.

[Lowtardog]

@ chesh

what do you mean by this period 1645 (ECW) or 1745 (jacobites)?

Front Rank does have a nice range of jacobites and so does redout.

Crantarra have nice 1/56 range

[juergen c. olk]

Old Glory also makes them.

[Bandit]

@ juergen c.olk

I've seen the battlefield myself, the wall is only an obstacle for regular troops or cav. Anyone who thinks of it as an obstacle to enclose the battlefield is a loonie.

I was at the SYW Convention with juergen, or rather it seems we were both there. Professor Duffy is generally seen (at least in our shared circles) as the authority on most (all?) of the period and he gives a much stronger account and respect to the Jacobite forces than is being represented here.

He is also involved in the battlefield preservation efforts (which are presently a dire thing) for Culloden and spoke of the fact that the wall does not, and has not existed during our lifetimes as it did on the day of battle, thus recent visits not withstanding the situation appears to have been different for the men who fought there.

Cheers,

The Bandit

[Der Alte Fritz]

I seem to recall Duffy saying that the Jacobites were trained troops and the majority were armed with muskets, so let's drop the stereotype of the whole army armed with claymores and Lochibar axes. Duffy also opines that the Cumberland bayonet drill was over rated with respect to its impact. Just saying...

[Shapur]

just went to the scotish national trust site which takes care of the battlefield and took some information about the battle.

"As winter eased into spring, the two sides drew closer together. The Jacobite army took Inverness at the end of February; at the beginning of April Cumberland's forces began their advance west from Aberdeen.

For the Prince, however, time and money were running out.

Many Jacobite troops were still far from Inverness and were urgently summoned to join the Prince's army. Those who were with the Prince seemed to be in high spirits, but in reality the Jacobite army was stretched to breaking point. Food and money were in short supply and the army was not at full force. Few commanders thought they could win a battle in this state.

Cumberland marched his troops from Aberdeen in good order. They were closing in on the Jacobite army for what would surely be the decisive battle. Morale was high as they camped at Nairn on 15 April - Cumberland's 25th birthday.

Rather than risk a pitched battle in their weakened state, the Jacobites agreed a final desperate plan: a surprise night attack. This night march to surprise the enemy in their camp could have been a brilliant strategy. Sleeping redcoats would have been no match for Jacobite troops. In reality, as the trailing Jacobite column stumbled along in the dark, it turned into a chaotic disaster. The Jacobites had failed in a critical gamble.

As dawn broke, battle was still not inevitable. Even now there was time for the army to draw back to Inverness and regain their strength at a safe distance. Bitter arguments broke out between the senior commanders - even the French envoy pleaded on his knees for the Prince to withdraw.

But the Prince was determined and took the decision to fight then and there. Many of his soldiers were asleep, exhausted from the night march, while others were away looking for food or had yet to arrive in the area.

Some Jacobite leaders favoured a retreat to high ground south of the River Nairn, others a withdrawal to Inverness. The Prince preferred to fight where they stood, on the moor at Culloden. With Cumberland's army in sight, Charles's luck was finally running out. The pipers began to play and the tired army struggled into position.

Towards one o'clock, the Jacobite artillery opened fire on government soldiers. The government responded with their own cannon, and the Battle of Culloden began.

Bombarded by cannon shot and mortar bombs, the Jacobite clans held back, waiting for the order to attack. At last they moved forwards, through hail, smoke, murderous gunfire and grapeshot. Around eighty paces from their enemy they started to fire their muskets and charged. Some fought ferociously. Others never reached their goal. The government troops had finally worked out bayonet tactics to challenge the dreaded Highland charge and broadsword. The Jacobites lost momentum, wavered, then fled.

Hardly an hour had passed between the first shots and the final flight of the Prince's army. Although a short battle by European standards, it was an exceptionally bloody one.

Within a few days of the battle, around 1,500 Jacobite soldiers gathered at Ruthven Barracks, ready to continue the campaign. To their surprise Charles gave the order to disperse and then went into hiding. For him, the Rising was over."

If you have an army build on the charge and the hope that the enemy would break after your charge, you have to be sure that you hit the troops that haven't seen the elephant.