Can the Jacobites win at Culloden??

[NickNascati]

All,
     The wife has me watching "Outlander" with her. Very good I must say, and that spurred me to re-watch the excellent 1964 BBC film on Culloden. With the wonderful Crann Tara minis available, this conflict is intriguing me. I wonder though, seeing all the mis-management and in-fighting among the Jacobite forces, how much tweaking would one have to do with the scenario to give the Jacobites a chance?
                                                                                            Nick

[Emir of Askaristan]

A lot!
Historically Cumberland's Hanoverian army was drilled and ready for it. The Jacobites had retreated and then marched all night and then retired back again after failing in a futile attempt to surprise the redcoats. The ground at Culloden was terrible and the odds were well and truly stacked against BPC.

Best course of action would be to refight the campaign and try and rebalance things by not making the same mistakes, few rulesets would /should let the Jacobites win at Culloden without rolling sixes all day!

Fight the campaign - don't stop at Derby 

[THE CID]

Give them Thompson machine guns, they might have a slight chance then.
Only kidding, it took some guts pelting across that moor against grapeshot etc. I've been and it's quite a distance to charge across. Maybe if the highlanders resorted to guerrilla warfare could change the scenario. THE CID.

[has.been]

I agree, fight the campaign not the battle. I too have been to the battlefield & area & think there are several ways the Jacobites could put up a better show:=
There was a river the Hanovarians had to cross before Culloden & the Jacobites were defending the far bank. Government officers were not looking forward to fighting their way across, then insted of reenforcing the defenders the Jacobites fell back ! ;
At Culloden, to the Government's left, is some high ground behind a stream. This is much better ground to defend but this option was not taken because (it was felt by some Jacobite commanders) that it left the way open to Inverness, gate way to the Highlands;
The Jacobites could have retired into Inverness & tried to withstand a seige;
The Jacobites could have retired beyond Inverness & into the Highlands. This is an area I explored by car on modern roads & over modern bridges. If they had pursued the Jacobites into the the Highlands the Government forces would have had to leave garrisons along the way, thus getting weaker the further they went. The Highlanders would have been at an advantage in this guerilla war;
Even after the defeat a sizeable force of Jacobites regrouped at a pre arranged rendevous, but there was no Bonnie Prince Charlie to lead them, so they melted away. If he had stayed & cut across to Aberdeen he might have taken the Goverment stores there & cut the Hanovarians of from their extended supply lines;
Charlie had every intention of returning, the gamble had very nearly come off. I am sure he thought he would return with (this time) a decent amount of French backing and do the job properly.

These are just a few 'what ifs' I hope they give you some ideas.

[Lowtardog]

I think to win, they shouldnt have fought and should have capitalised upon their previous victories, disbanded and harried the regulars and recommenced campaigning in the next year.

[Emir of Askaristan]

That's the whole point of wargaming Nick - the "What If"!

Now, crack on and refight the campaign and produce many pictures and AAR's!

Thanks!
 

[AdamTheGreat]

Just give 'em a commander better than Charlie and they'll be fine. 

[rumacara]

Nick do please check the Front Rank miniatures for further miniatures.
They are very nice to paint.
Also Warlord has some highlanders in the ECW range.

[juergen c. olk]

I just attended the syw con.,in south bend ,Indiana two weeks ago ,and Christopher Duffey who has written two books(get newest one),gave a lecture on the battle. They made tactical mistakes at the battle,but were a far better trained army than most believed. They just forgot to tear down that wall on their flank,and it went downhill from there.

[Shapur]

You all missed the fact that the jacobite forces were levies. Crofters who had to serve their lord in time of war. The jacobite army haven't fed for days, the artillery started the battle with four rounds per cannon, our what they called cannon. And giving battle after a night march because of a cunning plan of a night attack that would be cancelled isn't a good idea.

But after all Bonnie wouldn't have an army if he retreated further into the highlands.

If things got bad the clansmen would go home, if things are good and they got plentiful of plunder they would go also home.

[carlos marighela]

Then there's the leadership factor. Bonnie Prince Shortbread Tin, the transvestite Italian gigolo.  There's someone who's lustre as a military commander shines through the ages. 

[juergen c. olk]

Again without writing a thesis,I know they were Levies,and all the other factors involved. But even with all those deficits ,it was the fire on their flank ,and then the British cavalry following up that sealed their fate. The quality of the british army was hit and miss ,mixed w/ militias and the cav.,was poor quality. Their artillery though was well served.   Anyway they could of ,should of, did not.

[Shapur]

@ juergen c.olk

I've seen the battlefield myself, the wall is only an obstacle for regular troops or cav. Anyone who thinks of it as an obstacle to enclose the battlefield is a loonie.
Artillery at this time had any impact, if the cannonball could bounce on the ground. And the ground is a moor, a lot of heather and some bogs. So the ball wouldn't bounce at all.

The reason is on the english side, the bayonet that fit around the barrel of the musket, and not into it, (you could therefore fire and fight at close quarter) and the new drill, thrust at the highlander to your left (behind his shield) and not to the one in front of you.

And tactful pursuit of the english dragoons, who cut down anybody as a rebel, down the way to Inverness sealed the fate of the rebellion. On the other hand Bonnie wouldn't have left any troops otherwise.

[THE CID]

You keep saying the Jacobites were levies and farmers, need I say what were the Boers.

[SteveBurt]

Boers were farmers with repeating rifles backed up by rifled artillery.