VBCW Idea Thread

[6milPhil]

Phil, that Anglican juggernaut is amazing!  

Glad you like it mate, someone else made a mobile altar too.  

How would Perry miniatures desert rats fit? is the uniform too late/modern? i'm tempted to do a few squads in wolsely helmets as part of some colonial police force-style detachment.

I think some has used those before as "Blackshorts". I wouldn't worry about the uniform, IMHO total historical accuracy for a "what-if?" is a non-starter.

[Kommando_J]

I saw those blackshorts, they somewhat inspired me as I never really looked at Perry's stuff before.

Would universal carriers be too early? what kind of armoured units would be usable in an African/tropical/jungle setting? maybe the carden lloyd? does empress do a covered version? I'm thinking a mix of tankettes, armoured cars for speed and carriers.

[Arlequín]

'Historically' speaking '38 webbing, Universal Carriers and such are too early (1940 being the key year for both), but as I like to think that war can either speed up the introduction of items, or stop them altogether, all bets are off. 

Britain did not use the 'covered' Carden-Loyds, but then again it is hardly rocket science to make and fit covers and indeed some might have found their way back here from their original owners.

If you can create a reason for your force to have them, then generally speaking you're golden.   

[Kommando_J]

I could definitely see a use, from all the photos i've seen, CL's with covering were quite popular for jungle engagements. I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.

As much as I want to keep it 38 or before ww2 had all the best/interesting innovations, i'd like to think that like the SCW the vbcw serves as a test-bed for new technologies that otherwise would be saved/not seriously considered until the war.

That and with it being various factions with various resources, things that would never be taken seriously/be considered too niche could find new use in giving factions that slight edge, where on a 'proper' battlefield they soon be too impractical.

[fastolfrus]

Britain did not use the 'covered' Carden-Loyds, but then again it is hardly rocket science to make and fit covers

But since we are on an alternate history, wouldn't it be more down to individual commanders - David Stirling, Scot Lewes etc.

For VBCW, things like the Blacker Bombard, Smith Gun, or Northover Projector are ideal - low-tech, Heath-Robinson style (and the Blackers date to the 1930s anyway), so maybe a CL carrier with a canvas tilt isn't really that far-fetched.

[Arlequín]

I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.

But since we are on an alternate history, wouldn't it be more down to individual commanders - David Stirling, Scot Lewes etc.

For VBCW, things like the Blacker Bombard, Smith Gun, or Northover Projector are ideal - low-tech, Heath-Robinson style (and the Blackers date to the 1930s anyway), so maybe a CL carrier with a canvas tilt isn't really that far-fetched.

CLs did have canvas tilts, we're talking about the 'steel hoods' on export models.  

While I frown at 'silliness', you can't ignore 'possibilities' either. A lot of imaginative people were stifled by unimaginative superiors and you can only wonder at what might have been, had they gotten a free hand in a situation like VBCW. I have argued in the past for an earlier introduction of the Sten gun, or a 'sten-like' weapon based on the MP-18 rather than the MP-40, or indeed any Interwar sub-machine gun.

Okay German-supplied Panzer IVs and things like that would spoil it if I was involved in VBCW, but less imposing changes do not give anyone an advantage and allow you to include figures and vehicles that would otherwise be barred on the basis of 'historiosity'.

Looking ahead to 1940, the British Army armoured units made-do with trucks fitted with machine guns, not unlike the LRDG ones used a short time later in the desert... there is no reason why this could not be done a couple of years earlier. The Home Guard weapons mentioned and numerous others which did not appear, are also exactly what could be done in VBCW with a man and his tool shed.

Keeping it 'historical' only works until you reach your 'point of departure' from history, after that it's an open field. As far as individual kit goes, the British had been experimenting with various types of battle dress and webbing since the Early '30s, with one which looks very much like that adopted in the '50s being rejected in favour of the 'battle dress' of WWII.  

That something "didn't" appear until 1940-42 does not mean it "couldn't"... VBCW is an exercise in imagination, or so I've always thought.  

[6milPhil]

I'm starting to think the historically accurate angle to vbcw is stifling me slightly.

Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. 

[jp1885]

Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. 

This.

[Arlequín]

Ignore it. I've seen a couple of folk give up VBCW because others complained about inaccuracy. It's your take on it so choose what you want. 

Unless I've missed something more recently, I recall it was a case of a vocal minority trying to push their 'vision' on everyone else. 

Indeed though, unless such folk are willing to buy the figures, paint them and post them to me, all free of charge, I have always reserved the right to do anything how I want to do it. 

 

[6milPhil]

Exactly.

[tin shed gamer]

I find it quite odd that anyone would bother trying to lay down the law on a Fantasy game.
For me the whole point of this system is to use what you already have in your collection,and to make the odd thing to change the pace and direction of your game.
I personally use a lot of WW1 vehicles(only because I have a few )I also use a lot of bespoke cereal packet based models to bolster the feel of the game,mainly ships,But I'm also trying to fit in an airship to have a flying objective that hangs around more than a plane .

[Arlequín]

I find it quite odd that anyone would bother trying to lay down the law on a Fantasy game.

You'd think so, but it is the ideal situation to do it, no pesky real history for anyone to throw back at you. I considered that the mind-set was something like "It wasn't my idea, but you're soon going to think that it was".

 

I like a fair bit of historical basis and if anyone asks for some, I'll offer what I know. It doesn't stop me from enjoying the limits that other people have stretched their hobby to though, nor do I think VBCW suffers for it in any way. I also get a lot of satisfaction that despite the all the naysayers, it's still going strong.

 

[Kommando_J]

The more I read into, the surer I am just look at the British ordnance board, it disapproved of the bolt action rifle and attempts to succeed it as it thought soldiers ''would expend ammunition too quickly'', a legit concern for a general that has to manage supply trains, while in VBCW a rapid firing smg would seem like a Godsend to the unlucky local volunteer attempting to see off 20 black shirt.

I'm wondering what other weapons might get a new lease of life in a battlefield were innovation is King(but hopefully not the fascist kind).

[Arlequín]

There was quite a gulf between what generals wanted and what the troops wanted throughout the '30s (and indeed at all times to a point). The whole process of mechanisation was a tug of war between 'traditionalists' and soldiers who wanted to learn a useful mechanically related trade, rather than 'horse-care' ones, in a world where they were fast becoming scarce.

The ammo expenditure question plagued the army right up to the introduction of the SA80 and I presume even now soldiers have to 'pick up their brass' on the range, so the cartridge cases can be recycled. It was more a concern of MoD 'bean counters' than generals though. Nevertheless interdicting enemy supplies is always useful, if they can't shoot, what can they do?

The answer is probably in Jp's 'rural protestors' thread.