Drop Ship (now with added pew pew)

[Brandlin]

Select the parts that make the bay and scale them up to the new size you need. The rest of it will be fine you might just have to move a few bits left or right to line them up with the new bay size.

Thanks for the input scurv.

Problem with just scaling it up is two fold.

Firstly it starts to get properly massive if i scale up engines and everything else too. If i don't then they look puny on the new bigger hull. Besides the hull is long enough and almost wide enough.

Secondly the hull is a skeleton build of lasercut flat sheet parts. In scaling up the components the thickness of the sheet wont change. SO they have to be individually managed. - there are over 60 unique parts in the hull, and al together around 220 separate parts.

I'm going to have to redraw big chunks of it anyway so i'm looking for a neat solution which retains as much of the existing shape and feel as i can without sacrificing too much to the gods of practicality...

Edit : Sorry that sounded overly negative. It wasn't supposed to.

[von Lucky]

Sorry, haven't read everything from the last few pages - this thread has been off my radar for a week.

Have you thought of two designs? One for the infantry and a little more nimble, the other for the larger stuff? It would be a shame to see this original design butchered.

I realise there's an additional cost with two - but use the sales of one to make the second.

Just a suggestion.

[Ajsalium]

I think you should do as Von Lucky suggested. Split it into two projects.

The original listerine ship was a smallish dropship, for troops or light vehicles at most. Something that can fit a tank is, simply, a different beast.

Unless you want to end crazy, I'd guess you'd better focus on finishing the listerine/resilient/beyonce dropship as originally intended.

Then you could make a new bigger dropship for heavy loads. Surely there are some pieces you may use again (as in real life), but the hull will need to be designed from scratch (perhaps making it bigger, also longer, with six engines...).

[former user]

I think Your dropship design has the concept in it.
Have You thought about a cargo frame, with engine, cockpit, fins and wings, that carries either a container for soft goods (droptroops or supplies)  or vehicles suspended from hardpoints?
it is clear that vehicle loading can only occur in secured installations and dropping off vehicles is easier by simple touchdown an releasing.
After all You want a dropship and not a cargoship?

[Brandlin]

Sorry, haven't read everything from the last few pages - this thread has been off my radar for a week.

Have you thought of two designs? One for the infantry and a little more nimble, the other for the larger stuff? It would be a shame to see this original design butchered.

I realise there's an additional cost with two - but use the sales of one to make the second.

Hi Von Lucky - and thank you for your input.
There's a lot to read, but i have discussed this as an option earlier in the thread. I think it's probably what I'm going to do. Both will use the Cockpit engines and other bits but the heavier one will have a bigger cargo hull.

Scurv - thank you for your continued input. At 234 parts (71 unique part designs) i'm getting pretty adept at file management and version control. That number will come down a bit as I simplify the skeleton. A lot of the work is parametric, and the assembly is simply a mated arrangement of parts so its not too hard to manage. I'm sure i could have done it better but then that's one reason why I'm doing this project - to learn. The bit I'm not looking forwards to is translating the 3D model back into the 2D layour for the laser cutter. Lots of projecting and tesselating and chaining lines, then trimming and inserting tabs so the bits stay on the sheet!

I think you should do as Von Lucky suggested. Split it into two projects.

The original listerine ship was a smallish dropship, for troops or light vehicles at most. Something that can fit a tank is, simply, a different beast.

Unless you want to end crazy, I'd guess you'd better focus on finishing the listerine/resilient/beyonce dropship as originally intended.

Then you could make a new bigger dropship for heavy loads. Surely there are some pieces you may use again (as in real life), but the hull will need to be designed from scratch (perhaps making it bigger, also longer, with six engines...).

Ajsalium - thanks for the comment. Yes I think this is the conclusion I have come to as well. Stick with the basic outline and have a light and heavy version. I still need to do a number of things with the original and a little more door height will help heroic 28mm figures too.

I think Your dropship design has the concept in it.
Have You thought about a cargo frame, with engine, cockpit, fins and wings, that carries either a container for soft goods (droptroops or supplies)  or vehicles suspended from hardpoints?
it is clear that vehicle loading can only occur in secured installations and dropping off vehicles is easier by simple touchdown an releasing.
After all You want a dropship and not a cargoship?

Thanks for the feedback former user.
I know there is a lot to read on this thread and also on my blog. I've discounted this idea before. I strongly dislike the look of those sort of dropships once the cargo is deposited. and I do like the listerine bottle shape i originally started with.

On a 'practical note' (and i do hesitate to use the term practical when talking about sci-fi) having your military equipment designed to be dropped into orbit on the outside of a dropship doesn't make much sense. As well as designing a militray vehicle, you have to give it the same atmospheric protection as the main ship. And where do you put the crew? If you're genuinely dropping your equipment from up high then the crew need to be IN the equipment. In which case it needs life support and lots of other systems that will only get used during drop. Again expensive.

Think about a tank with a gun barrel as an example. If you want to deploy that tank and you're just going to stick it to the outside of a carrier vehicle, then what do you have to do to protect that long thin sticky out bit as you bounce through the very hot and aggressive outer atmosphere?

Then, if you are only transporting infantry - how do you deploy them? If you do it from height with your troops in "space suits" then you're making a re-entry vehicle for each of them, and you dont need a drop ship of this ilk. Finally extraction becomes problematic. To recover both vehicles and infantry, you either have to land and attach them / take them on board or you have to use very expensive energy to hover and try and recover in VTOL in the engine jet wash. Inso will be along in a minute to tell you what that's like under a rotary aircraft, and why the modern military dislike doing it and the amount of preparation it takes to do so in packaging and stowing kit.

Now, all of those problems can be over come in one of two ways.

1. Advanced Technology
2. Ignore them because it looks cool and this is sci-fi.

Persoanlly I dont subscribe to 2. Whilst 1 is a good argument, modern day engineers dont make things difficult for themselves and then invent new ways to solve problems that weren't there before. We do things the cheap way, the repeatable way, we re-use tried and tested tech until it hurts.

Ultimately this is a cross between a modelling project and a wargames project. If its able to deploy equipment from a hight then it's never going to be ON the table. So the cargo hull remains.

Rant over - sorry got carried away.



In Summary

• I'll make a light Dropship for Infantry and Scout Vehicles.
• I'll Make a Mk2 for heavier equipment which will share all the same design components but have a bigger hull.

Now a couple of questions.

Even the light Dropship is going to be around 250 x 180 x 90 (not including tailfin height) (thats 10" x 7" x 3 1/2" for our stuck in the imperial measurements historical deadend cousins). It will weigh in at somewhere around 0.75Kg

Do you want to be able to pose it in flight? And by pose I mean moveable in Pitch Roll and Yaw?

I only ask becasue i think I have sorted how to do it and am wondering if i'm the only one would want that?

[Vanvlak]

I'd be more interested in the landed ship pose (compressed landing gear, and alternative extended gear or retracted in flight? - with apologies if I missed something!) and, if used as a flying model, a standard steady flight - perhaps with a rearwards tilt to reflect the lander poise, even though that would probably be more correct during high altitude braking than at near-tabletop level.

I know it would not solve the payload problem, but a 'zwilling' type version would be interesting  – and simple too: two models, with the port side thrusters of one and the straboard side thrusters of the other removed and the hulls bonded together. Or perhaps with the engines retained as the hull linking unit.

For the large model - I would suggest as an option having double the number of engine pods mounted above each other, or perhaps with an outer engine pod strapped to an inner for a double unit. For the cockpit I would suggest retaining the same one and fitting it asymmetrically, with some faired avionic instrumentation or anything more or less rational alongside it.

[Brandlin]

I'd be more interested in the landed ship pose (compressed landing gear, and alternative extended gear or retracted in flight? - with apologies if I missed something!) and, if used as a flying model, a standard steady flight - perhaps with a rearwards tilt to reflect the lander poise, even though that would probably be more correct during high altitude braking than at near-tabletop level.

I know it would not solve the payload problem, but a 'zwilling' type version would be interesting  – and simple too: two models, with the port side thrusters of one and the straboard side thrusters of the other removed and the hulls bonded together. Or perhaps with the engines retained as the hull linking unit.

For the large model - I would suggest as an option having double the number of engine pods mounted above each other, or perhaps with an outer engine pod strapped to an inner for a double unit. For the cockpit I would suggest retaining the same one and fitting it asymmetrically, with some faired avionic instrumentation or anything more or less rational alongside it.

Some interesting Ideas there Vanvlak - thanks for oyur input. I'll try and respond to each point.

Ship will be able to sit on its lanfing gear as you can see in all the pictures.
The landing gear also retracts into the hull (the sole of the foot forms the outer skin of the hull)
You would be able to pose the landing gear up or down whilst the ship is in flight or on the ground.
In-flight. You will be able to position the ship in any Pitch, Roll or Yaw within around 45 of the horizontal. I'm guessing the angle - haven't drawn the mechanism up yet.
The engines vector remember so you can pose them suitable to the flight orientation as you wish. Each engine vectors independently.

I tried to google "Zwilling" but just got hundreds of links to kitchen products!

From your description I am guessing you mean two conjoined hulls? Hmmm yes would be possible. Just ommit stbd/port engines and glue the hulls together. All the engine, cockpit and other greeblies will be interchangeable. Im not yet anticipating more than 4 engines on the larger version. Mounting them might be problematic. But that may change. If there is demand, then I suspect I might be more likely to recreate engines with triple intakes and exhausts in each housing, rather than the existing two.

I hope that helps.

[Vanvlak]

Thanks for the replies Brandlin - modelling options for landing gear position is good news  

Zwilling - I had the HE-111Z in mind .

Thanks for the replies, this is getting more and more interesting.

[Brandlin]

Breaking up the cockpit into pieces that will fit on the 3D Printer table.

[YPU]

I am going to make the bold statement that this looks like one could ad cocktail details to the whole.

[Brandlin]

I am going to make the bold statement that this looks like one could ad cocktail details to the whole.

I don't understand what you mean YPU.

[YPU]

It means I should stop making posts from my phone.

The way you have broken up the components for printing you could add details to the cockpit (wtf phone, cocktail?) Naturally the windows would need to be carved out an some clear plastic inserted. I'm not sure how you plan to produce the final product so this might not be the case in the end?

[zizi666]

It means I should stop making posts from my phone.

(wtf phone, cocktail?)

 

[former user]

Naturally the windows would need to be carved out an some clear plastic inserted.

better print them or cast them in a clear material...

Congratulations on the cockpit, I am sure many would be interested to buy one. I would

[Froggy the Great]

Yeah,a kit with the cockpit and landing gear would be great for people with empty Listerine bottles.