New Greens from Killer B Games **11/5/15 US Soldier 'Dollies'**

[fastolfrus]

At first I thought it was going to be Bilko, the wargame, nice figures

Some of the motor pool chaps would be a useful team - who wouldn't want corrupt/incompetant/short/fat squaddies rather than the over muscular athletes we often get from other manufacturers.

1950s generic B movie types would be better for eg Mars Attacks, giant ants, dinosaurs, or any other kind of "Creature that ate Sheboygan" style game.

[carlos marighela]

Too be honest if you wanted generic '50s troops you probably would have been better off with M1 Garands. The M-14 took quite a while to roll out as did the webbing. There are photos of National Guard soldiers at Fort Drum, New York in 1970 still wearing WW2 webbing, albeit equipped with WW2 weapons.

Carrying the magazine for the M-14 would be a pain with standard US WW2 webbing, unless you had the BAR magazine holders. Better off modelling the M-1956 equipment IMO.

BTW the lower pics of the dollies do look a lot better proportioned.

[Captain Gamma]

Bugger. You say it would be a pain to carry the ammo in a Ww2 belt. Would it be unthinkable?

[carlos marighela]

The M-14 is a magazine fed weapon. Those were twenty round magazines. for reference sake it's the boxy looking bit sticking out underneath the rifle.

The M-1 Garand and it's predecessors were fed by clips, eight round clips in the case of the Garand and the standard WW2 webbing ( itself merely a modification of a pattern that went back to before the Great War) was designed to accommodate small clips.

You couldn't physically fit an M-14 magazine into the standard rifleman's webbing pouches, which would rather invalidate the point of the magazine. A similar problem existed with the BAR, for which a specific belt set was issued to the BAR gunner in each squad, with four pouches that fitted the BAR magazine.

The M-1956 equipment was designed with the M-14 specifically in mind. I doubt there were sufficient sets of BAR specific webbing to have equipped every riflemen anyway.

It's hard to tell what the webbing those figures are equipped with on the basis of the photos. Maybe the sculptor intended the BAR magazine belt, they kind of look like the double magazine pouches but I can't really tell.

[carlos marighela]

My memory is faulty. The M1918 BAR set and its later equivalent versions were triple pouch affairs. Three on each side each able to carry a single magazine. There were seperate items designed to go with the M-1936 pistol belt but again, this is what the M-1956 equipment was designed to overcome.

If you make 'em in the M-1956 kit you'll get more crossover sales for people wanting troops for Vietnam, the Cold War or Elvis on the Moon anyway.

[Captain Gamma]

Thanks for all that Carlos. At least the mistake can get rectified at this early stage. I'll look at changing the webbing.

[Captain Gamma]

I've just checked out the BAR belt pouches and although my soldiers have two as opposed to three the pouches do look the same.

[Arlequín]

Carlos has the right of it. Although it entered service in 1958, only the two Airborne divisions were fully equipped with the M14 by 1962. That being said, you would use your 'Elites' to support MJ-12 Ops I would think.

These photos represent '1965', but the only discrepancy for earlier is the baseball cap on the second guy, previously the Garrison Cap aka 'Ridgeway Cap' or 'Castro Cap' was worn. Only one canteen was carried until Vietnam too.



The official load out from the Field Manual is so...



Garrison caps on these guys being issued with their brand-new rifles.



Even MG Gunners carried the same belt pouch, plus WWII style leather pistol and holster, as seen on this 173rd Airborne gunner in 1965.



As far as crossover sales go, the first Army units to go to Vietnam were all equipped with the M14, in OD fatigues and leather boots. The troops at Fort Knox in 'Goldfinger' all had the M14 too! Getting it right will be worth it I think.  

WWII kit did stick around though... as this incongruous photo of M1 Garand armed troops de-bussing from an M113 in '62 shows.



Even in Vietnam the M2 Carbine and M3 Grease Gun were the preferred weapons of SF troopers initially... although one unit of Navy SEALS had the forerunner of the M16 in 1962!

The only other comment I can add is that it seems odd to see a U.S. soldier with his chin strap actually on his chin; paratroops on a jump yes (and they have a chin cup and an extra strap), but otherwise they are usually either hanging unfastened, fastened over the back of the helmet, tucked into the helmet, or loosely fastened and hanging under the jaw itself. .. anything but under the chin.

Anyway... if you want generic - M1/2 Carbines, M1 Rifles, M3 Grease Guns, BARs and WWII style webbing as appropriate for each different weapon. If you are looking for crossover sales, M56 webbing for everyone, M14 rifles, M79 launchers and M60 machine guns.

I'd actually buy both in platoon quantity, but then you may have gathered I'm a bit of a nerd for this sort of thing. 

[Captain Gamma]

Well I've been in touch with the sculptor and it's going to be simple enough to change the webbing to the '56 webbing . Garrison caps are planned (as per Kingdom of he crystal skull)
The chin strap was intentional.i just felt it looked right for pulpy GIs.
Hopefully these changes will generate cross over sales and avoid a range that ends up being another WW2 American range.
Thanks to all for your advice. These changes will also mean I can use the soldiers as National Guard etc for Geezers.

[Arlequín]

You're welcome! As prospective buyers, it's in our interests to speak up now, rather than wait until there is no going back. For me I could live with 'generic' and 'pulpy' as I'm into '50s Sci-Fi and Spy-Fi in any case; barring Brigade's 'Atomic Cafe' and some of the KKBB range, it's all 'Jason King' out there for the most part.

People don't play it because there are few figures, manufacturers don't make it because there are few players... chicken and egg.

I do however want to do some 'serious' What-If gaming in the era of the Cuban Missile Crisis and I doubt there will ever be a range made to support that. Figures I can use for both are a win for me and I would be buying far more of them, given that you use more in a 'skirmish' game than in something like 7TV, or Geezers etc.

I don't suppose '60s Soviets and Cubans are in your future plans by any chance?     

[Captain Gamma]

As it happens I was considering a Cuban revolution and Bay of Pigs range. Bought a load of books and doodled some cover designs. I'm probably deterred by having to get everything just right with it being historical. Sci Fi, 70s kitch and 50s pulp don't tend to get as much scrutiny for their accuracy.

[Arlequín]

Well there are a wealth of photos of Castro and his guys and the 'Bay of Pigs' Osprey book gives good coverage of the Anti-Castro forces for all its see-saw tilt towards them.

Batista's Cuban Army wore mostly US Surplus (some surprisingly old surplus in some cases too), but carried the Springfield rather than the M1 until late in the Revolution.

The Soviets in Cuba wore the Soviet tropical uniform and hat (and usual helmets obviously)... apparently they cut the toe part of their boots off due to the heat though... a small detail I would be inclined to ignore myself. Cuban militia were pretty much the same as they were in the time of the Bay of Pigs, a real mix. Only the regulars pose a problem and they wore US Fatigues, a variety of bits of US webbing, but mostly carried the FN rifle.

It wouldn't be that difficult to get it right-ish, but then that's what forums are for too, you're not alone. There's a lot of knowledge knocking around LAF and what we don't know, we usually can point fingers in the right direction for who does.

Alternatively you could go for a 'Pulp' style revolution, so some of the heat would be off as regards accuracy... remember the Michael Caine/Billy Connolly film 'Water'? I can't speak for everyone, but gaming a generic '60s-style revolution could be as satisfying as gaming the real Cuban one for me.

   

[Captain Gamma]

Hmm I see what you mean. Cuban-ish forces would fit in with Geezers Royale. 1950s Russians in the style of kit seen in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are Definately planned.

[The Gray Ghost]

Well I've been in touch with the sculptor and it's going to be simple enough to change the webbing to the '56 webbing

Well that's a relief, I would hate to have non historical troops to battle my giant mutant ants from space invasion game. 

[Captain Gamma]

Hahaha well yes true. Although they are intended for pulp I didn't want them to look too wrong in order to get crossover sales .Now I must make sure my giant atomic ants are anatomically correct.