Author Topic: Giovanni of the Black Bands. (Read 7725 times)

Uthred of Bebbanburg · « **on:** January 20, 2015, 10:10:35 AM »

If I was to build a force representative of Giovanni's mercenary force in the early 16th century, which models would be suitable? Would I be able to get away with using Pro Gloria's landsknecht? Thanks in advance.

traveller · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2015, 06:35:33 PM »

I am on the same project myself

As Giovanni Medicis Bande Nere was an Italian unit I use TAG and Perry Miniature Italians. Reading Maurizio Arfaiolis interesting book on the subject one realize that there are a number of misunderstandings regarding this unit:

- This unit were not dressed in black until AFTER Giovannis Death in 1526. They did so to mourn Giovanni, ie Giovanni did NOT lead a unit dressed in black. There seems not to be any clear description of their dress but their is one account where a Black Band Soldier is described as: shirt, shoes, doublet, trousers, buff coat(leather). Colour was black and they wore black sashes including blackened armour and drums. Black flags was used with embroidered devils and some of them with the motto “In dispecto tuo Christo” (“In spite of you, Christ)

-there was a German Landsknecht unit in French service also called the Black Bands

Uthred of Bebbanburg · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2015, 09:52:36 PM »

Are the perry Italians not far too early? I thought they were more wotr than anything.

olicana · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2015, 11:54:26 AM »

'Black Band' seems to have been quite a common name. As said, it seems to have been mostly used to describe an attitude rather than the colour of dress. The French used the Black Bands of Geulderland at Marignano:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=73442.0

As for figures, I'd go for TAG for the period you are after.

Pike (these have French flags because I'm using them as Picard Pike)

Shot (front unit)

And I believe he had 300 mounted arquebusier

whiskey priest · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2015, 04:22:26 PM »

I always thought the 'Black band' came from parts of his arms or at least flag. The popular story is that he added a black stripe to his flag in mourning for Pope Leo X (hence a black band). Could all be bollocks obviously but at least one italian reenactment group use something similar for their flag in honour of him.

And Pete's flags do a nice set based around similar assumptions

Stuart · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2015, 04:36:52 PM »

Some more info on the Landsknecht Black Band in French Service, very detailed info but worth a read;

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=45247.0

pierrebi · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2015, 04:50:17 PM »

Accordi to Italian Enciclopedy Treccani http://www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/medici-giovanni-de-detto-giovanni-dalle-bande-nere/

Giovanni de' Medici, also know as Giovanni delle Bande Nere. - Leader (Forlì 1498 - Mantua 1526). Son of Giovanni de 'Medici the Peasant and Caterina Riario Sforza, was orphaned at a very young age. Educated at home by Jacopo Salviati, married his daughter, whom he had Cosimo, the future Grand Duke. Mercenary, organized his famous bands that twice, to the death of Leo X, and their leader, they changed into black the white insignia. A service hours of the pontiff, now the French, in the War of the League of Cognac faced validly head of the Italian infantry lansquenets imperial, squeezing between the Po and the marshes of Mantua; but was mortally wounded by a shot falconet the Duke of Ferrara.

olicana · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2015, 05:30:31 PM »

Quote from: whiskey priest on January 21, 2015, 04:22:26 PM

I always thought the 'Black band' came from parts of his arms or at least flag. The popular story is that he added a black stripe to his flag in mourning for Pope Leo X (hence a black band). Could all be bollocks obviously but at least one italian reenactment group use something similar for their flag in honour of him.

And Pete's flags do a nice set based around similar assumptions

That's interesting, and Wiki agrees, and that makes sense. I'm going to nick that flag! Thanks.

It doesn't explain other black bands - the Geulders Black Bands might be so named because they were formed from the remnants of a 'Great Guard' or 'Black Guard' (guard formed by Maximilian in 1488) - but there is no evidence I can find to say why 'black' in the first place.

traveller · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2015, 05:34:24 PM »

Quote from: Uthred of Bebbanburg on January 20, 2015, 09:52:36 PM

Are the perry Italians not far too early? I thought they were more wotr than anything.

Check out the EA range where the are Italian light infantry, they are for the period up to 1500 but the dress would do for the 1520s

Stuart · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2015, 05:56:51 PM »

Apparently it is a misconception that the Landsknecht Black Band were Guelderlanders, I thought they were also but have a look at the discussion link above for a fairly reasoned argument to the contrary.

olicana · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2015, 09:58:57 AM »

I've just read the relevant bits in that thread. Very interesting, and like most things to do with this period, it makes everything as clear as mud.

Thanks, Stuart. Oh, there goes my tail again - I'll chase it.

James

Stuart · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2015, 11:43:46 AM »

I know, why do we do it to ourselves !

Condottiere · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2015, 12:03:43 AM »

Maurizio Arfaioli's The Black Bands of Giovanni should easily be found for $30-$40, shipping included or extra, and not the $100+ asked for by some sellers, but for those who can't wait for shipping from Italy, the author's thesis is here: The road to Naples: Florence, the Black Bands and the army of the League of Cognac (1526-1528).

Conjectural flags: Bande Nere flagsheet

Lowtardog · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2015, 07:27:22 AM »

Wow totally off topic but think I just found my goblin landsknecht banners

Blue in vt · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2015, 02:11:00 PM »

. Perfect Lowtard! Those are quite spectacular!

Cheers,

Blue

News:

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Giovanni of the Black Bands. (Read 7725 times)

Related Topics