The Perrys and the Morrisons

[Modhail]

The Perry's did some wonderful stuff for GW (their Empire models are still better than anything Empire to have come since)

Hear, hear! To this day I still lust after their Bretonnian figures...
If they ever did a range for the first few decades of the HYW instead of the last few, I'd be in deep, deep trouble with the misses...

[Mars Miniatures]

Oh, fine... you guys have pushed me over the edge.  
Look at what you guys made me do.
http://mars-miniatures.blogspot.com/2015/04/oldhammer-first-edition-box-set-has.html

Guess Im going to be hunting some Marauder and Citadel after all... ebay here I come.

And here locally, my post is
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=77512.msg948103#msg948103

[Hobgoblin]

Great stuff! I recently discovered that I have a complete (well, bar the box) first-edition Warhammer (plus an extra of one of the books, for some reason). I think it may well be the best, though the second edition is what I played (and later third) in my misspent youth. I discovered that I have the dwarf leader from the Ziggurat of Doom kicking around, so am going to run the scenario with Song of Blades and Heroes (a much better system than any iteration of Warhammer, in my view).

One thing I really like about first-edition and second-edition Warhammer is the sketchiness of the background. There's a huge amount of room left for the imagination, but lots of nice detail provided in the specific scenarios. And those scenarios are really terrific. I plan to revisit the Dolgan Raiders with Song of Blades, and may well look at Kremlo the Slann as well (once I've painted up my rediscovered horde of Perry Slann).

[Mars Miniatures]

Hobgoblin,
I also was weened with 3rd edition for the longest time.  Then fell into some bad company that made me Knights & Magick with them for a few years.  I miss those scallywags, I should look them up sometime.  I also have printed copies of SOBH and supplements as well.  Whatever system I use, I really want to build up piles of old lead again. 

[Hobgoblin]

Hobgoblin,
I also was weened with 3rd edition for the longest time.  Then fell into some bad company that made me Knights & Magick with them for a few years.  I miss those scallywags, I should look them up sometime.  I also have printed copies of SOBH and supplements as well.  Whatever system I use, I really want to build up piles of old lead again. 

I bought the Knights & Magick PDF after discovering it in your terrific Moria thread. I'd never heard of it before. How did you find it plays as a game? I bought it principally for the campaign stuff, but I also wondered whether it might work well for larger, unit-based skirmishes than Song of Blades (at least until Song of Army and Hordes comes out!). I'm also looking at Lion Rampant for that.

My general view on Warhammer is that it's tremendously clunky. I did a brief comparison with SBH, and I think that in Warhammer you roll three dice for two or three possible outcomes in melee, whereas in SBH you roll one die for nine possible outcomes. And you don't need the charts for SBH. Having said that, there's absolute gold in those first-edition books: the scenarios and the FF stuff on the various forces' heraldry, war cries, colours and so on - with great illustrations by John Blanche.

[Mars Miniatures]

Hobgoblin,

Tell you the truth, K&M is a product of its time.  Much like Warhammer 1st edition or AD&D 1st edition, I dont expect old school systems will live up to the elegance of modern systems. With that said, rolling a d10 and a d6 to produce a bell curve seems ingenious, but time consuming for large combats, since you are rolling that for each figure.  Then again its one roll "to kill" found on a chart vs armor.  Still its clunky.  K&M has similar scope of Lion Rampant in number of figures involved.  But, Lion Rampant is excellent and elegant in every way, until we get Dragon Rampant that is! 

As for K&M as a campaign, its detailed pretty well, you have money and you get income for territories.  You buy armies, heroes, fortifications, so it gets paper heavy.  In K&M you write up your army lists, and if units die, they remain dead, unless you buy replacements.  My old gaming group relished the long campaign turns and we even had a monthly writeup with our own fanfic, current events and such.  I have tremendous rose colored glasses for it, but Im afraid it wont hold up in action.  But then again, what other options do we have for campaign rules today?  Warhammer 6th/7th had terrible campaign rules (IMO), abstract armies were only points that could change composition between battles (could be wrong).  But that is what they were designed for... speed, not granularity or detail.  So if you like detail at the expense of speed, and you like old school paperwork you will like K&M campaigns.  I just might use K&M as a campaign for WHFB 1st edition. YES!  campaign map will be different mines and caverns of Moria, with each area providing different gold and resources and defenses.

[Elbows]

I suppose I need to play Lion's Rampant.  I bought the rules, read through them once and tossed them in the closet.  They didn't strike me as anything special, yet everyone here raves about them - and I have some gaming buddies who enjoy them.  I'll have to play them to see what I'm missing.  At first read it just seemed like a very average set of rules, didn't excite me.

[Mars Miniatures]

Elbows,

I like Lion Rampant because they are simple and average, Im feeling my middle age brain cant take complex rules anymore, hence my affection towards WHFB 1st edition.  What I really want is a modern day revisioning of Cry Havoc specifically for fantasy.  With that said, last year I was contemplating From Valmy To Waterloo over General De Brigade...  also, I havent bought it yet, but Im guessing Blucher might be my Lion Rampant for Nappies...

Oh, what rules do you play, Elbow?

[Blue in vt]

If you are on the hunt for old lead there are many sources above and beyond eBay.  Check out the Bazzar here and ob other Warhammer forums as well and the Oldhammer trading Co. FB page...lots of great things on there.

As a massive Oldhammer junkie I fully support and encourage you to collect, appreciate and paint these old sculpts! 

Good hunting.

Cheers,

Blue

[Mars Miniatures]

Blue,
Thanks Budday, Im going thru and bookmarking all the Oldhammer blogs I can find at the moment.  I will definitely be using the various forum trade areas.

[Blue in vt]

Mars,

As far as Oldhammer Blogs go here is the "mother lode" from the Oldhammer forum

http://forum.oldhammer.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=46

including mine...which is also included in my signature below...

Cheers,

Blue

[Elbows]

Elbows,

I like Lion Rampant because they are simple and average, Im feeling my middle age brain cant take complex rules anymore, hence my affection towards WHFB 1st edition.  What I really want is a modern day revisioning of Cry Havoc specifically for fantasy.  With that said, last year I was contemplating From Valmy To Waterloo over General De Brigade...  also, I havent bought it yet, but Im guessing Blucher might be my Lion Rampant for Nappies...

Oh, what rules do you play, Elbow?

None at the moment.  I was anxious about LR because I would like to start a small skirmish style historical (or slightly fantastical game).  I'm a huge skirmish gamer and will play about anything someone will host.  I don't stick to any particular rules sets.  I'd like to find a good historical version of very small skirmish warbands (with a little more detail, ).