Artizan NWF Next Releases?

[Volleyfire!]

That officer top left reminds me of a certain Capt Flasheart of Blackadder fame.

[fitterpete]

So its been nearly 2 months.Anymore in the pipeline? I finally broke down and went on a buying spree after the last releases but my Guides are still leaderless 
Pete

[italwars]

So its been nearly 2 months.Anymore in the pipeline? I finally broke down and went on a buying spree after the last releases but my Guides are still leaderless 
Pete

hello...but Guides were a mix of Punjabis and Sikh type turbans..those punjabies seem OK compared to WF ones which, in fact, where only Sikh heads (beard, large turban( with a Kullah added...if you're thinking at a slightly different headress..that's to say this unique long shaped type turban..a little bit different by those ones of the figures ...an which is , in some contemporary picts, associated with guides..untill today was only present on Willye 30mm figures....but , in that case, i'll be an extremely purist approach for that scale

[THE CID]

Peachy, Daniel and Billy Fish are coming soon.

[Arthur]

[Bindonblood]

I did have an email conversation with North Star Nick a couple of weeks ago.

I believe that Mark is having a break from this until after Christmas. I am hoping that is just after Christmas and not sometime next year.

Nick implied that the Ghurkas were ready (although that may be me misinterpreting how he phrased it).

I am hoping that Mark will read this and comment on his plans. I am really hoping that cavalry, artillery and those outstanding command packs (plus British regulars in trousers) will turn up soon - including the missing Afghan regular command in turbans.

Also some generals would be fabulous, but what would be marvellous would be a 'Last Eleven' set for the 66th....

[Dewbakuk]

Can't comment on upcoming figures, other than a quick pic I saw of Billy Fish, I know nothing. The sculptor is Mike Owen.

[Bindonblood]

Yep, so it is. This is what comes from rushing..... 

[fitterpete]

So I can use two of the Punjabi officers to lead the Guides? That works out good then, my lone Punjabi unit currently has 4 officers, little too many for a 24 man unit.

Can you mix all the Punjabi and Guide figures to have more pose variation then? Most of the kit looks the same except for a shoulder bag and the tunic is slightly different.
I'm not really that picky as these aren't getting used for strictly historicals anyway.I just don't want it to look too goofy.
Thanks all
Pete

[Mad Guru]

Pete,

As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair.  But if you're not obsessed with historical accuracy and want to mix different types yourself, I say go for it.  Over their long and storied history, small numbers of Guides from mixed backgrounds may well have fought together on at least a few occasions.

The Guides ranks included Pathans, Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs, and Dogras, even some Gurkhas.  Here's a pic showing some Guides Infantry of various backgrounds in 1879 Kabul -- note the various different styles of turban and facial hair:

[Atheling]

Pete,

As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair.  But if you're not obsessed with historical accuracy and want to mix different types yourself, I say go for it.  Over their long and storied history, small numbers of Guides from mixed backgrounds may well have fought together on at least a few occasions.

The Guides ranks included Pathans, Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs, and Dogras, even some Gurkhas.  Here's a pic showing some Guides Infantry of various backgrounds in 1879 Kabul -- note the various different styles of turban and facial hair:

Thanks for pointing that out MG... something I hadn't actually considered 

Darrell.

[italwars]

Pete,

As far as I know the various different ethnic/religious contingents within the Guides were grouped in their own separate companies, so if you are playing a game at the skirmish level, all the Guides involved would probably be from the same background, and therefore wearing the same style of turban and have the same sort of facial hair.  

Mad Guru....maybe i'm wrong...but from what i perceive and feel...and also see in quite a few pict, from all periods, concerning this fascinatng but not easy to frame Indian Army tarditions and costumes...i developped the idea that, probably, a Sikh officer or NCO would be preferred to lead also men of other relions (religions..not casts)...and a martial attitude or leadership istinct would have been much easy t find in a Sikh that , for example, in a Dogras...OLd Sikh Sergeants appear frequently in picts...personally..i would go with a long bearded Sikh company havildar major (with beard dry brushed in white) leading even Muslim moustached sepoys..

[fitterpete]

Thanks again guys!
Really appreciate the detailed answers.
Pete

[Mad Guru]

Pier Paolo... well, sorry to say this my friend, but I do believe you are wrong.

A very large number of Jats, Dogras, and Punjabi Muslims served in the ranks of the Bengal Army, and later, when recruiting class companies was opened to the Madras and Bombay Armies in the 1890s, in their regiments as well.  It's true, the "Martial Spirit" of the Sikhs earned a special place in the annals of Imperial British history, as did that of the Gurkhas, and the fierce reputations of both groups were certainly well-deserved, but the aforementioned Dogras, Jats, Punjabi Muslims, and even Pathans (whose sympathies were sometimes seen as questionable when confronting their cousins on or above the Afghan border) all acquitted themselves well in battle over their years of service under British command.  Along with Sikhs and Gurkhas these other groups from the Punjab were the preferred recruits for British service following the Mutinty, but prior to the Mutiny, the British considered the high-class Hindustani, or "Purbia," class to be the most favored martial caste/race in India.  It was only after the Mutiny that British opinion changed, I would say driven largely by understandable political dynamics.

Specifically re: Sikh NCOs or officers leading non-Sikh troops, here's a quote from Terence Heathcote's "The Indian Army":

The class-company system, although it had the advantage of giving men of different religions or communities the opportunity of competing with each other in efficiency and thus, through their rivalry, keeping up the standards of the whole unit, had one major disadvantage. Men of one community could not be placed in command of those belonging to another.  Thus whereas, in a single-class regiment, promotion could be according to a single seniority list, and soldiers or NCOs could be interposted from one company to another, in a class-company regiment this could not be done and separate rolls had to be kept for each of the communities concerned.  If the Indian officers of one company became casualties, there was no way of replacing them by experienced officers from within the regiment.

*NOTE: boldface emphasis above is my own!

Again, I have no problem with anyone who wants to use Indian troops of different ethnic/religious types in a single unit in their own games, as it is entirely their business!  I just won't be doing it myself... unless it's a game played at the multiple company level or above.

Take care and good gaming -- and let's hope we can buy those Peachy, Daniel, and Billy Fish Artizan figures very soon indeed!

[italwars]

Mad Guru..very appreciated answer and explication..and Heathcote source..the name of the author is a synomimous of historic reliability from what i remenber..being myself  a purist..at leat for colonial games.. i'll follow your advice that, unfortunatly, will leave unemployed (as an alternative i can behead them ) my nice surplus Sikh NCOs castings from DA WF range..your interesting sociologic explanation and reasearch on the period for the sake of setting perfect toy armies will be shown to my girlfriend who still insist in pulling my legs and saying that my/our precious hobby has to be associated with never lasting never grown big chillds. ..while, in reality, is far more similar to a sort of academic research..