Talk to me about Hirst Arts

[Rhoderic]

So I've been looking at the Hirst Arts website again. I've always refrained from buying any of their stuff because of numerous uncertainties, and now I suppose it's high time to get those out of the way so I can make an informed decision for once.

1. How good/bad an idea is it to buy the pieces pre-cast? What are some good companies that sell such pieces? UK/European stores preferred.

2. How much time and effort is it to cast these pieces in bulk, anyway? I mean, I'll have to make dozens upon dozens of castings to get the pieces for a medium-sized terrain piece. And the casting instructions at LINK and LINK make it seem like quite a fiddly prospect. Do I actually have to go through all that to make the pieces come out all right?

3. Aside from the molds themselves, how much money should I expect to have to spend on the plaster? There's bound to be some waste.

4. Is normal plaster really durable enough, or do you recommend getting one of those alternative, pricier materials (e.g. dental plaster)? If so, I refer again to my previous question about how much money I should expect to have to spend.

5. This is quite a hazy question, but here goes. Is there some "network" of Hirst Arts mold owners that cast pieces for each other (or even exchange/lend molds) as kind favours or on a quid-pro-quo basis? I don't really know anyone who's got Hirst Arts molds locally, so I'm talking more about the international scene.

[Ramshackle_Curtis]

Materials will be low for the size of model you make. If instead of using plaster you used resin you can get a 20kg drum for £70, delivered to your door. 20kg is enough to build a freaking huge castle, so would certainly be a cheap way to get the terrain. Plaster, even dental plaster, will be cheaper.

Maybe even try cement...
http://www.tiranti.co.uk/subdivision_product_list.asp?Content=Ciment+Fondu+-+Ciment+Fondu+-+Casting&Subcategory=56&Subdivision=207

[opa wuttke]

Hello Rhoderic !

I own several of the HA-Molds and occansionally they are in use now.
If you decide to buy some of them you have to know this: You never will be satisfied with only three or four...you MUST have more and more and more  Little joke 

Be aware, that before building you have to cast...and this is time-consuming...believe me 
 With a little bit of practise the the results are very good, but only if you use dentalplaster. It lasts longer and some of the more filigree parts in some mold will otherwise break...I always buy my dentalplaster on I-Net, there are some companies specialised on dentist goods. Expect 2-2,5 € per Kilo...
Buying precast pieces never match the costs...forget it, It´s simply to expansive.

In my opinion, it is a good idea to have some molds with special parts from the "gothic" oder "egyptian"-Range (depending on your project you would like to start...). For general buildings likes walls, roofs etc. it is easier to refer on more "traditional" methods. It´s faster, cheaper and more lightweight  (a simple pyramid with a hight of 20cm weighs some kilos...imagine what will happen if you´re going to build a cathedral  )

Greets

Opa W.

[Verderer]

I have several HA molds, and use them quite a lot (although not so much recently). I use plaster that's locally available, it's harder than regular POP, but not exactly dental grade plaster. Plenty durable though. I dunno anyone who would make precasts around my area, but I guess just the postage costs alone will make it too expensive. So my advice is, cast them yourself.

It takes time to cast a lot of bricks, but I use a couple of tricks. First of all, I have multiples of the same mold, especially some floor molds, basic block molds and stuff like that. Secondly, I always cast around 6-10 molds at one casting. There's no point in casting just one mold at the time. Even if you don't need the pieces right then, you can cast them to storage, and use them later. This is also why it's a good idea to buy at least 3-4 molds, to get the operation really going. Once you start casting, you realise you will end up with loads of some extra special pieces you really don't need. This is just wasted time and effort, so don't cast more of those bits: you don't have to fill the whole mold, just those bits you need.

The cost of plaster isn't an issue for me, your experience may be different depending on the availability of the stuff in your area. Long distance shipping of heavy sacks of plaster is not economical, so look for local suppliers. Normal plaster is ok for most pieces, and even detail pieces are ok, if you cover them with a coat of PVA glue. Again, check what's available locally, and choose what seems most prudent.

[archangel1]

I've got 10 of the molds, mostly Egyptian, and, using dental plaster, the results are usually excellent.  It is a very time-consuming process, though, and you never seem to cast enough of the one piece you really need.  I've got lots of extraneous pieces where I've simply stuffed any leftover plaster into an empty hole just to avoid wasting it.
As Opa W. says, you will want more molds.  I know I do! That said, I am considering ordering one or two precast sets, just for the convenience.  I really want the ruined fieldstone tower but I don't look forward to casting 28+ sets of parts so I'll buy the complete kit.  I can buy the precast set for $63 whereas it would cost me $68 for the two necessary molds plus the cost of the plaster.

[Verderer]

Oh, one thing I forgot: get a friend or two to buy them with you. Either share the cost equally, or both of you buy your own sets, and the loan them. I am sure with a good friend this is possible (I have this arrangement with a pal of mine). You get loads of molds to use, and can even swap bits with each other. Sort of micro network, if you will.

[Svennn]

A 25kg bag of finishing plaster is very cheap but it is a little tricky to get used to. Mixed with a little PVA its strong enough. Mixed with warm/dirty water it will set quicker too cutting down your casting time considerably.

Even better is the plaster used in ceiling roses and cornices etc. You can get this in 25kg sacks too - about £10.00, but you will need to find a more specialized builders merchant.

I echo the comments about the weight of finished pieces etc.

The "Geezers Under The Arches" thread is a superb illustration of using the foamboard tecnique. Yes, this is time consuming to get right but I think a LOT quicker than plaster moulds.

Check out this site - some great WIP shots and superb finished pieces http://gidian-gelaende.de/Material_HP/Wolfgang/

[vikotnik]

I have some molds, but I never used them to build a terrain piece. The only thing I use them for is for the occasional base decoration. And that is single pieces.

I have had enough pieces to build a crypt once, but never got round to actually do it.
 

As I am working with dental plaster every day, casting would be no problem to cast bubble-free, but in my opinion, using the 'cork-method' described in various threads on this forum would be much faster. I would never even consider constructing a large building this way. Too much time, effort and weight for my taste.

Costs should not be of too much an issue: Black(!) premium dental plaster is about          € 6,- per kilo around here. It is hard as a rock and You would not even have to prime it!!
 

You would have to take great care in producing precise castings, either by grinding the 'open' side of the mold down in the cured pieces or using sand paper or by putting a glass plate on the mold while the plaster is still wet. This alone could be a pain in the a...

On the other hand, it is like almost everything in this hobby: If You think it would be fun, You should give it a try...

[Rhoderic]

After reading your replies, I'm starting to re-evaluate my original idea insofar as that I'd really only want the molds for the decorative stuff (statues, wall reliefs etc.) and the hard-to-scratchbuild structural bits (gothic arches, castle turrets etc.). You guys are right, there's no point making the entire structures out of Hirst Arts bricks when the basic floors and walls are simpler to make out of foamboard/cork/whatever.

But that doesn't do much to reduce the number of molds I want. Most of them have something I could use. It does make the pre-cast option seem a little more favourable, but I can still see it getting expensive quite fast.

I suppose the wisest course of action seems to be buying a couple of very carefully selected molds (whichever ones would have the most bang for buck) and getting pre-cast pieces from the rest of the molds. Perhaps I could even use the Marketplace to find some kind souls who'd be willing to cast me some certain piece or other in limited quantities, for some not-so-great sum of money. Or perhaps that's just being presumptuous.

I'm still looking for information on sellers of pre-cast pieces. I know I've seen some companies out there, with a Hirst Arts stamp of approval even. But the only one that I can specifically remember was based in the US.

[archangel1]

Here's Bruce's list of authorized dealers.  There are several shown for the UK and Europe.  There's even one in Denmark, which, last time I looked, was quite close to Sweden! 

http://www.hirstarts.com/links/links.html

[Rhoderic]

Thanks, I did skim the site for such a list but obviously I'd missed it.

[Bako]

I don't use the stuff myself as I'm(and always will be) a die-hard fan of foamcore and cardboard, but I've heard a lot of guys over the time the Hirst Arts stuff has been around that dental plaster is the way to go. Also, mold-release agents should be relatively easy to find. Though it'll probably be different else where, but the art store here has everything I'd ever need for casting and molding, from plaster to resin, and even 2-part epoxy.

Good luck with the project if you're going to go ahead with it. And don't forget to let us see it .

[Hammers]

So I've been looking at the Hirst Arts website again. I've always refrained from buying any of their stuff because of numerous uncertainties, and now I suppose it's high time to get those out of the way so I can make an informed decision for once.

1. How good/bad an idea is it to buy the pieces pre-cast? What are some good companies that sell such pieces? UK/European stores preferred.

Don't know, never tried. Probably a good idea, esp. for the odd bits you do not need a lot of.

2. How much time and effort is it to cast these pieces in bulk, anyway? I mean, I'll have to make dozens upon dozens of castings to get the pieces for a medium-sized terrain piece. And the casting instructions at LINK and LINK make it seem like quite a fiddly prospect. Do I actually have to go through all that to make the pieces come out all right?

Those instructions show you have to get the best result. If you dedicate an afternoon to the task you'll see that it is not so difficult at all to get a good assortment of building blocks cast and another 24 hrs later ready to use.

3. Aside from the molds themselves, how much money should I expect to have to spend on the plaster? There's bound to be some waste.

Plaster is cheap. There is not much waste, if you follow the instructions.

4. Is normal plaster really durable enough, or do you recommend getting one of those alternative, pricier materials (e.g. dental plaster)? If so, I refer again to my previous question about how much money I should expect to have to spend.

No, normal plaster is not durable enough. I would personally scrap the whole project if I had to resort to plaster-of-paris. A drawback with dental plaster is that is not as readily available in Sweden. You may have to look around a bit. I do not know the exact price difference but I expect d.p. to be pricier.

5. This is quite a hazy question, but here goes. Is there some "network" of Hirst Arts mould owners that cast pieces for each other (or even exchange/lend molds) as kind favours or on a quid-pro-quo basis? I don't really know anyone who's got Hirst Arts molds locally, so I'm talking more about the international scene.

Well, I have a few moulds which you may borrow for a agreed period of time. I also have some cast odd bits you may have.

[Rhoderic]

Thanks for the offer, Hammers. What moulds/pieces do you have?

To be clear, I don't really need any Hirst Arts pieces right now, but maybe for some future projects later in the year.

[Rhoderic]

Here's something I didn't know: Apparently Hirst Arts isn't the only company making moulds for wargaming terrain.

http://www.terrascenic-online.co.uk/acatalog/TerraScenic_Scenery_Builder_Moulds.html

http://www.terrascenic-online.co.uk/acatalog/Linka_Moulds.html

Granted these don't look enormously useful (especially for the projects I currently have in mind) but others might feel differently. The Linka ones could be quite handy if you needed lots of urban buildings for Victoriana, Pulp, Superheroes or something such, and didn't mind them looking fairly uniform. Something to keep in mind, for those of us who feel hindered from getting into these genres because of the expense/effort we perceive is required to get all that urban scenery.