First Game of Frostgrave was Very Disappointing

[Fencing Frog]

I think everyone is talking a little cross purposes here. Gailbraithe, the problem people are having with your game isn't that it was the first game of a campaign and that you were out powered, it's that it was your first game ever! Nobody should ever be taught to play a game with mismatched forces, it's just stupid. A new player to the game (not campaign), will make tactical errors and bad game choices even if they've read the rules, and in this game they have the added complication of 80 spells to look at.

EXACTLY

[Gailbraithe]

Gailbraithe, are you still around? Interested to hear your thought now that you've had plenty of responses and maybe some time to think about it.

ie I hope you've been able to fix it and want to continue playing

Tonight is the night my club meets up, and I'm planning on playing a game with my new warband against another equally new player, and I'm going to discuss some of the suggestions in this thread.  So we'll see how that goes.

[Gailbraithe]

So I played my second game.  This time my opponent only had one game on me, and one of his soldiers was out with an injury, so it wasn't completely lopsided.

Sadly, I still didn't enjoy the game at all.  Early on my opponent scored 2 critical hits in a row, killing my thief right before she grabbed a treasure, then killing my apprentice when he went for the same treasure.  From that point it turned into a rout, and once again it turned into a 4-2 -- it would have been a 5-1, but we were doing the Genie in Bottle scenario and he let my Tracker escape with a treasure so he could focus his fire on the Genie (and luckily I was able to get off the board when it had 1 Health and deny him the XP).

I just don't think I like this game.  I absolutely hate the way damage works.  I hate how it all basically comes down to luck, and strategy doesn't really mean anything.  I managed to do 1 Health of damage to him, he killed half my warband, and it all came down to luck.  I also loathe games where you lose on Turn 2, but still have to keep playing for turn after turn.  I knew I had lost the game 20 minutes in, and the game lasted another hour -- and that is just way too long to sit there trying to lose gracefully.

And then to top everything off, I got crap treasure.  Two grimoires with spells I don't want and can't sell.  Woo hoo.  Meanwhile he got three times the gold and six potions.  It's like the game kicks you when you're down, and the Snowball is undeniable.

I think I'm going to give it one more shot, and then I'm done.  If the third game is another painfully humiliating, boring slog in which the only skill I get to exercise is my ability to lose gracefully, then this game is clearly not for me.

[Remington]

Hey Gailbraithe, why force yourself into something you do not like? While I don't agree (I thoroughly enjoy and like the game even when getting the short end of the stick) with your opinion, I know that no game around is to everyone's satisfaction. And that's ok. So don't beat yourself up too much about it.

[Gailbraithe]

Hey Gailbraithe, why force yourself into something you do not like? While I don't agree (I thoroughly enjoy and like the game even when getting the short end of the stick) with your opinion, I know that no game around is to everyone's satisfaction. And that's ok. So don't beat yourself up too much about it.

Because I've already spent well over $200 on the game.  Bought the rulebook, pre-ordered Thaw, and bought two full warbands and resin bases.  It's a lot of money to throw down a drain.

EDIT: Just cancelled my pre-order of Thaw...

[Remington]

Then give it some time, play something else for a week or two and then re-try it. Going at it with a forced need for enjoyment won't bring the result you're looking for. I feel your frustration but remember that you're doing this for fun.

As for the costs... The minis are not rules-specific and they are quite suitable for other fantasy games. Trying to find a silver lining for you, hope I am not annoying you further.

[JamWarrior]

Because I've already spent well over $200 on the game.  Bought the rulebook, pre-ordered Thaw, and bought two full warbands and resin bases.  It's a lot of money to throw down a drain.

EDIT: Just cancelled my pre-order of Thaw...

It's a lot of money to spend on a game you've yet to play...

But it is indeed a game with a large luck element which may make it not for everyone.

However to say it all comes down to luck and there's no strategy at all is letting anger cloud your judgement a little.  Your opponent set an archer covering a treasure, and you wandered your people out into his line of fire. Twice.  Once with your valuable spellcaster.

That sounds like some sound tactical play from your opponent and possibly slightly less than the best decisions from you.

[Drachenklinge]

I do understand him in a way. Some of the faults were visible right away in the rules, i.e. Fighting: difference makes damage after one dice roll, more or less. Could get ugly.
But then, these things work on both sides and with thugs as well. So it is either tactics or crappy dice. 

Also, I would change the table with these out-of-game wounds. They are to equally spread for my liking. But then ... as said ... sooner or later even the best games grow some houserules according to the community playing it.

And if this game isn't really for You, sell Your stuff, since many people around here like it. Should be no problem.

On the other hand ... I had to play 30 times of WHFB to win my first game with my dwarfs. The ratio hadn't improved much ever since. ^^
And I still play dwarfs. I am just to stubborn to give in. 

[Calmdown]

I could talk or explain about why despite the fact that the mechanics are swingy they can even out quickly, or the fact that your bad luck games even out over time because it's a campaign, but to be honest it sounds like the game just isn't for you. If you hate the dice mechanics so much (because they are super super swingy, no denying it) you should just quit and try to sell it all while the game is new and riding on a high and stop wasting your time on a game that clearly doesn't suit you.

[Gailbraithe]

However to say it all comes down to luck and there's no strategy at all is letting anger cloud your judgement a little.  Your opponent set an archer covering a treasure, and you wandered your people out into his line of fire. Twice.  Once with your valuable spellcaster.

He didn't set an archer on anything.  He was just moving towards it same as me, and rolled 2 critical hits in a row.

That sounds like some sound tactical play from your opponent and possibly slightly less than the best decisions from you.

Dude, you couldn't have done any better.  The treasure was on top of a 3 inch high box, and anyone standing on top of that box was visible from most of the board.

[Malebolgia]

2 criticals in a row...that is a 1 in 400 chance...so extreme luck. Nothing more. Yes, it happens...but it's extremely rare.

[Captain Blood]

I just don't think I like this game.  I absolutely hate the way damage works.  I hate how it all basically comes down to luck, and strategy doesn't really mean anything. 

I find that to be the case with most wargames rules
The fact that most rules depend so heavily on dice (or other random elements), means that all the strategy in the world comes to nothing if the dice are against you.

There are a number of sets of wargames rules and boardgames which I just don't like and won't play. C'est la vie.

I guess the trick is to try to sample a ruleset before going in lock, stock and barrel with a big investment in figures and rulebooks. But the role of marketing is to seduce people into buying-in, and I think Frostgrave has been well marketed indeed

[gmanrocks]

This has been really interesting. I'm about to run Frostgrave for this academics years campaign at the Unis tabletop society for around 20ish students. It really sucks when you don't enjoy it, and I know, chances are, some of the students are going to be in the same boat if there's a heavy luck element.

I'd say try it again (I havent played it yet myself), but third time is often the charm. Maybe in between club days you play against yourself, just to get a feel for you warbands strengths and weaknesses.

Having spent a lot on it might not be as bad as it seems, after all, the minis you have can be used for other systems such as 7th Voyage or Otherworld Skirmish.

Hope it goes well. I'll keep my eye out for your report.

[Drachenklinge]

Dude, you couldn't have done any better.  The treasure was on top of a 3 inch high box, and anyone standing on top of that box was visible from most of the board.

Maybe that could have been solved with that "wizard and three additional thugs in one go"-rule?

but ... just guessing

[ChaosChild]

He didn't set an archer on anything.  He was just moving towards it same as me, and rolled 2 critical hits in a row.

Dude, you couldn't have done any better.  The treasure was on top of a 3 inch high box, and anyone standing on top of that box was visible from most of the board.

Then maybe you shouldn't have tried to grab that treasure without taking out the archer first. Or you could have let him get that treasure and done the same to him. It does sound like your opponent had a combination of better tactics and better dice luck, which is painful when you're on the receiving end.