Regimental Gun for Scanian War 1675-1679

[Dalauppror]

Hi

I felt that my swedish troops in My Scanian war project needed a Regimental gun so I built me some Dalregiment crew from Wargames Factory minis, found me a nice Perry AWI 3pdr and some other stuff to make me a Regimental gun unit for The Pikeman´s Lament rules. More at My blog.

Best regards Michael

[WFGamers]

A great model, it looks lovely.

I am researching the use of regimental guns in the later part of the TYW and the period up to 1720. I wondered if you have any primary evidence (sources from the period itself) of the use of regimental guns in the Scanian War or this time generally? If you do can you give a reference? - it is OK if it is in Swedish.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[Atheling]

Lovely work mate 

Darrell.

[Romark]

Nice idea,they look great.

[Dalauppror]

Thank you very much !

I am researching the use of regimental guns in the later part of the TYW and the period up to 1720. I wondered if you have any primary evidence (sources from the period itself) of the use of regimental guns in the Scanian War or this time generally? If you do can you give a reference? - it is OK if it is in Swedish.

Nice that you have a intrest in the use of regimental guns. I must admit that I dont work with any primary evidence in my wargaming. But I sure can have a look if there are any references to primary sources regarding the use of regimental guns during the Scanian War.

My personal oppinion are that the Swedish army from the TYW to our latest war 1814 in our artillery units made use of light guns 3pdr (later 3-6pdr) that was deployed to bolster the infantry regiments during battle as Regimental guns.

At the battle of Lund 1676 (Scanian War) it is told that the Swedes had 8x6pdr and 4x3pdr guns that was deployed with the Infantry in the center. The 6pdrs was of course to heavy to move with the Infantry, but the 3pdrs was probably deployed as regimental guns and was manhandled with the infantry during the battle.

I have a look in the books I have and get back.

Best regards Michael

[WFGamers]

I have a look in the books I have and get back.

Thank you that would be great. I do a lot of research nowadays and the question of regimental guns have proved a problem. As the Swedes invented them/popularised them it is obviously important what they did but I have little information on them after G II A. So anything you have on Swedish regimental guns from 1633 to 1700.

I think it would be a good idea to say a little on artillery types - obviously here I am talking in general and there were lots of excepts. In generally there were three types of 3 pounder guns in the period 1620 - 1820. In the early period (up to 1730 - 40) it was common to scatter the field artillery, including the 'normal' 3 pounder guns, across the front of the army and in gaps between battalions. But these 'normal' 3 pounder guns were too heavy to move generally and were manned just by artillerymen - they were the standard field gun in most armies of the time.

The second kind of 3 pounder used before around 1730 was the regimental gun which was a lighter and smaller version of the 'normal' gun and a lot less powerful. It was assigned to a regiment and was effectively part of that regiment & had members of the regiment as part of the crew. This kind of gun was invented/popularised by the Swedes in the early part of the TYW. These are light enough that they can move on the battlefield but still too heavy to keep up with the infantry. It was part of the regiment but fought separately. By the time of the GNW (1700) as far as I can tell this was not used much - hence the question about evidence. The Swedes didn't use these at this time but some armies do - the Russians for example. It is not clear if anyone used these kinds of guns between say 1635 and 1690.

From around 1730 - 40 guns generally start getting a lot lighter and from this time 3 pounder guns, even 'normal' ones, are light enough that they can move fast enough to keep up with infantry. From this time on the standard field gun becomes bigger - 6, 8 or 9 pounders - and 3 pounder guns are often used as 'battalion guns' supporting and effectively part of an infantry battalion. They fought as part of the battalion and had members of the battalion as the crew. So these were similar to the earlier regimental guns but as powerful as earlier 'normal' 3 pounders and also very mobile.

So the Swedish army had regimental and 'normal' 3 pounder guns in G II A's time. By the time of Karl XII they only had 'normal' 3 pounder guns - at both times they could scatter these field guns along and between the infantry line. It is not clear when they topped using the older style regimental guns. After the GNW the Swedes developed a very good new 3 pounder (sometimes called a 4 pounder) which they used  from the 1740's and was copied by many other armies. This gun was often used as a battalion gun.

[Dalauppror]

Hi

I'll see if get Hold of any info regarding Regimental Guns during Scanian war.

What primary sources do you have for your statement abow?

As far as I know there was no Guns permanentat attached to swedish infantry It was always artillery specialists that manned the artillery both for ordinary artiller and for the regimental Guns, the infantry soldiers from the company was used only as draft animals during battle, as far as i remember i haven't read any thing that say that the soldiers in the regiment ever was to man the regimental Guns or that they was permanently within the infantry. Don't know how they did in other contrys.

For me it really dosen't matter as I'm primary a wargames and not a scollar, unfortunate i don't have the time to spend to track Down primary sources,  if it looks good and sounds as possible within the historical context it work for me, especialy regarding Swedish history.

Ill get back if i find any thing of value.

Best regards Michael

[WFGamers]

Hi,

I'll see if get Hold of any info regarding Regimental Guns during Scanian war.

Thanks.

What primary sources do you have for your statement abow?

The above was about all nations across about 150 years, no single source could cover that. It is a summary of many sources.

It was always artillery specialists that manned the artillery both for ordinary artiller and for the regimental Guns, the infantry soldiers from the company was used only as draft animals during battle, as far as i remember i haven't read any thing that say that the soldiers in the regiment ever was to man the regimental Guns

The infantry (also cavalry as some armies tried to use similar guns with cavalry) manned the guns and moved them around, the artillery men manned the guns and did the actual firing.

i haven't read any thing that say that ..... that they was permanently within the infantry.

umm I didn't say they were permanently within the infantry, although they could be. They were with a specific unit (usually a regiment of 2 or more battalions) for the duration of a battle. So a 3 pounder regimental gun assigned to the Dal regiment would stay with that regiment and not go to join say the Upplands regiment. A regimental gun would be effectively part of the regiment for the duration of a battle but could also be part of the regiment for a whole campaign, war or even permanently, depending on which time period and army you are looking at.

As far as I know there was no Guns permanentat attached to swedish infantry

I don't have my information on G II A's army with me but I do not think the regimental guns were permanently attached.

For me it really dosen't matter as I'm primary a wargames and not a scollar, unfortunate i don't have the time to spend to track Down primary sources,  if it looks good and sounds as possible within the historical context it work for me, especialy regarding Swedish history.

No of course not everyone needs to do this but I would recommend at least trying it once. Then you will see that what  "looks good and sounds as possible within the historical context" is often totally wrong.


All the best,


Nick

[traveller]

A Swedish Lt Col named Jonas Hedberg wrote a series of 9 books on the Swedish artilley from 1500 onwards. I believe these are the most recognised secondary sources you can find in Swedish. Available second hand here:

http://www.bokborsen.se/Hedberg-Jonas-Ulfhielm-Han/Kungl-Artilleriet-1-9/2944376

[WFGamers]

Thanks Traveller very useful.

[Dalauppror]

A Swedish Lt Col named Jonas Hedberg wrote a series of 9 books on the Swedish artilley from 1500 onwards. I believe these are the most recognised secondary sources you can find in Swedish. Available second hand here:

http://www.bokborsen.se/Hedberg-Jonas-Ulfhielm-Han/Kungl-Artilleriet-1-9/2944376

Exactly the book I had in mind to take a look at, unfortunate i needed to order the book at the library from theirs magazines. Hope to get it in a week or so and Will get back when i had a read.

Best regards Michael

[EZ8]

 [wrong thread response]