Painting Question

[HothJim]

Hi guys, my first post here on what looks to be an excellent forum. I am getting back into gaming after a long absence, currently painting up a Dwarf army for Kings of War and preparing a war band for Frostgrave.

Bit of a noob question this, but I am priming my miniatures in brown (have used green too) and I find that when applying the basecoats (a red for the tunic on a brown prime in the current case) the colours don't really 'pop'. Infact, the red looks a but dusty as after drying the brown can still show through.

Do I need to add a second coat of paint, or should I consider using a white primer? Any advice appreciated.

I am going with Prime-base coats-wash-drybrush. Does that sound sensible?

Many thanks in advance,
Jim.

[Westfalia Chris]

Hi guys, my first post here on what looks to be an excellent forum. I am getting back into gaming after a long absence, currently painting up a Dwarf army for Kings of War and preparing a war band for Frostgrave.

Bit of a noob question this, but I am priming my miniatures in brown (have used green too) and I find that when applying the basecoats (a red for the tunic on a brown prime in the current case) the colours don't really 'pop'. Infact, the red looks a but dusty as after drying the brown can still show through.

Do I need to add a second coat of paint, or should I consider using a white primer? Any advice appreciated.

First off, could you specify which paint range you are using? Advice may depend on the manufacturer.

Generally-speaking, most reds don't cover too well unless applied a bit thick. A second coat will usually produce better coverage, but it also depends on the paint range used. For example, some of the Vallejo Model Color reds (and other bright colours) contain Cadmium, which produces better coverage than their Game Color equivalents (or comparable tones).

Brown primers have a dulling effect on most paints, as does black. Personally, I used to exclusively use white primer, but switched to a neutral grey (Army Painter Uniform Grey) primer spray. This I have found to be a very pleasing compromise solution - colours aren't as bright as on a white primer, which is nice to me since I prefer somewhat subdued tones, and it doesn't take as long to get good coverage as is the case with a black primer, in my experience.

I am going with Prime-base coats-wash-drybrush. Does that sound sensible?

Very much my preferred method, although these days I only use drybrushes on selected materials with a pronounced structure, e.g. fur, tousled or curly hair or mail armour; sometimes also for plate armour if I want to get a slightly rough surface finish. I usually work up my highlights using layering, but a carefully-done drybrush can produce nice effects as well.

[Drachenklinge]

You may also paint the red-to-be areas with a light yellow-brown, i.e. like bronzed flesh. These earthtones usually cover very well. Then proceed with red.

[HothJim]

Thanks guys, really helpful.
I'm using army painter for everything.

Actually, Dwarf flesh from Vallejo but that's all.

So, it's I think oak Brown primer and Dragon red on top. Just not cutting the mustard, but I may go over it again. Lacking time though!

Jim.

[westwaller]

You could try first painting Vallejo cavalry brown over your brown undercoat, before applying the red.

[HothJim]

I could, but with 50 plus dwarfs to paint is there an easier and quicker option? Other than red hope to try a green and a blue for my next regiments.
Jim.

[Drachenklinge]

hm, have You already primed all the minis or is a switch to the solutions Chris mentioned still possible?
Also, the prime could be fitted to the tone or technique You aplied most.

With dwarfs it is usually beards and armour, so black would be good for quickly drybrushing the armour, but a little awkward for brighter nordish beards. So grey might be an option. If You spray - which I gather You do not, right? - You could spray in black, but giving the black primed mini a nebula of white, making it sort of grey too. Also, this will make stand out the texture/structure enormously well, too, but needs a bit practice.

When there is much clothing on the other hand ... than Your priming colour might be fitted to that.

Last but not least, I am actually a bit puzzled, that Your brown is not working well with red. These colours are not so far from each other, sort of.
I don't know Your painting technique, but maybe You should use a very dark red, like scab red or red gore over that brown primer. That way You have Your first shade of red, being able to highlight it right away to a brighter red.
The scab and gory reds usually cover a bit better than the brighter ones.

If You want to stay in tone, mixing the scabred with i.e. vermin brown brings an astonishing bright and vivid red.

So ... options and options ... we obviously need pix!

[HothJim]

Figures are already sprayed (sorry, thought priming and spraying were the same thing) so I cannot go down the route suggested above but will bear this in mind for the future.

I have attached an image of my WIP Dwarfs which show the varying degrees that the Dragon Red takes to the Oak Brown. Maybe I am just being picky; but compared to the Dwarf Skin (which sits really well and stands out) I am not quite so pleased with the results so far. Perhaps I need another coat?

A friend suggested brown as a good starting point as this covers things like boots, even beards, bags and more. I haven't painted for 15 years and used to start with everything sprayed white. Tempted to go back to this and see what results I get.

[Major_Gilbear]

Some bright colours struggle to cover, full stop:

- On a dark undercoat, they look dull

- On a light undercoat they look streaky

I would try mixing a touch of mid-grey into the first coat of red. Then I'd use a further two thin coats of plain red. You'll get a nice solid red that way, regardless of what you paint over.

With yellow, you can try adding a touch of ivory or pale flash for the first coat instead of grey, and then follow with two coats of plain yellow.

Adding a touch of a brighter colour that covers well to the fist coat of a translucent paint tends to help it cover better and more evenly, and then subsequent coats over it look nice and bright.

You can get more paint colours and then build up to your final colours, but that's more expensive and fiddly (more paints, more coats), and isn't what you're after here I think.

[Charlie_]

If I was in your shoes, I'd just commit to giving the red two coats and take things from there.

[Major_Gilbear]

If I was in your shoes, I'd just commit to giving the red two coats and take things from there.

I almost just said the same; however, whilst that'll cover evenly, it probably won't be very bright. If a wash is then going over the top, it's going to make for a pretty muddy-looking red.

If that's what you're after, then fine I guess. However, with washes and dips you normally expect to start a bit brighter and lighter because the following processes dull the colours down a fair bit.

[Argonor]

When using the 'quick-shading' method I always prime white, apply a base coat of a slightly lighter (and well thinned) tone than the finish I aim for, then finish of with the wash, usually Devlan Mud or an equivalent (just used up my last bit of DM). No drybrush for me; I find that the white undercoat shining through the base coat at the raised areas gives ample contrast.

I almost exclusively use black when building up several layers of paint from dark shade to bright highlight, as I want the shade to be really dark and solid.

I am going more and more back to the 'quick-shading' method, as I have been delving more into 'battle'-style games over the last year, and it's really the only way to get units done quicky enough to be feasible.

[Drachenklinge]

Are You planning on any highlights later on?
If that red is not bright enough mix a bit of a light sandy brown into it then paint the ridges with it. Should turn out well. But try out the mix before. Some colours tend to havefl funny results when mixed. And I'd say no plain yellow when mixing the red, cause that might go too much along the road to orange.

I also gather, we are not talking about "dipping" them later, right?

[Norm]

I'm not a real painter, I just want stuff on the table, but I basecoat in black and then dry brush in white so that my high areas can take yellows and reds etc.

[HothJim]

Hi Drachen,

I may try some highlights. Now this is different to dry brushing, right? I would need to pick out the edges with a lighter colour? Any tips?

No,  not dipping. Just an ink wash all over. I'm going to finish them tomorrow so will upload another picture ( as long as this isn't very dull and obvious for people).

Jim.