Thoughts on my campaign experience changes (also an elemental bolt nerf)

[djicelatte]

Experience:
10 for every spell cast
10 for every kill of an enemy warband
50 for warband killing enemy apprentice
100 for warband kill enemy wizard
10 for every level difference for the underdog
50 for each treasure removed from the board by a warband

Treasure:
Winning player collect any remaining treasure by rolling 16+ for each
Does not get exp for getting treasure this way

Spells:
Line of Sight spells have range of 24 inches

Not sure how nobody is having problems or getting bored of every wizard trying to one shot everyone with elemental bolt but the current exp gain in the book makes the already best attack spell also the best way to gain experience since the wizard himself has to get kills. These rules Ive been tweaking to make it so the player who wants to blast people still can but the the warbands as a whole will gain exp in a more even way.

Example of our test campaign so far from what i can remember its been going on about 5 weeks:
Elementalist lvl 32, all soldiers upgraded to top tier soldiers, over 1400 gold in vault from just slaughtering warband and collecting all remaining treasure
Enchanter lvl 26, also has elemental bolt to zap soldiers down for big exp boost
Soothsayer lvl 22, uses mind control to steal treasures and zombies to carry treasure off the board to keep warband members in the game
Witch lvl 18, (me) i use fog to safely move my warband in and be out of line of sight from elemental bolts and take treasures
Necromans lvl 8 his first miniature game and hasnt played as many games so he is way behind now

[VisOne]

Ok so that all seems logical/intuitive changes but one thing seems to be missing to me and its the most glaringly obvious to me.

Turn/Round limit.

Were playing 4 no variable or extensions just 4 so even it's unlikely that any one warband can get all 6 treasures in a normal game.

That curbs the offensive/aggression being the best tactic part I think. Can still be used but its not the be all and end all as you might not get the gold/item you need to replenish your forces. 

[PhilM]

I think Elemental Bolt is fine the way it is, yes its powerful but the range doesn't need to be nixed, you should be using more terrain on the table.

[Achilles]

Yeah, Turn limit makes Bolt far less attractive, as you need to be in possession of the treasures to win. Mobility and mobility denial spells (leap, Teleport) and porters like Zombies suddenly become far better. Running a Treasure Hunter up and then leaping him away behind cover is a wonderful tactic.

We've foudn 8 turns is a sweet spot. Games become far more dynamic and I find myself casting far more spells on my list than I thought I would rather than sitting in cover and endlessly spamming bolt.

[Darkson71]

My Chronomancer (and apprentice) spends more time casting Fleet of Foot than Bolt, as our 5/6 turn rule makes for the urgency of getting across and off the board.

Fleet of Foot zombies FTW!! 

[djicelatte]

I have never seen a picture or battle report of anyone that uses more terrain then us . Our table is like a bomb went off but with a +8 shooting attack cover doesnt save you very often as a decent dice roll is a one shot kill. The 24 inch range is for all line of sight spells and we recently started playing on a 3x3 instead of a 4x4 table so 24 is almost full table length. It feels plenty powerful. I would say turn limit for a 4x4 because our games would drag out forever but on the 3x3 it does go much faster. 4 turns does not seem like it would work at all unless youre just trying to pick up treasure and not carry it off the board. Also, if the the turn limit is too low it makes it hard for a warband to not just get whatever treasure he deploys next to. I feel its more fun with the chance of going for the extra treasures.

[Awesome Adam]

All that goes to show is that the Batpreps you are watching are using too little terrain.

If you can draw a line of sight greater than 12", from ground level to ground level, you need to move terrain around, or add more terrain. It's supposed to be the ruins of a congested city, not a battlefield.

Also, it's not cover you are looking for, but line of sight blocking terrain. Once you have enough terrain density that soldiers can run from ruined wall to ruined wall without being left in the open, then you worry about being zapped less often, as being within line of sight to zap you means he's within charge range of your forces.

[djicelatte]

maybe we use to many tall ruined buildings

[Awesome Adam]

If you do, I'd suggest moving them to towards the middle of the board, so they break up line of site from the starting zones, and they become less of a snipers paradise. 

[zellak]

My experience of the game is close to that of the OP.

My Summoner  ( level 32), will be in fear of his life this Sunday when he goes up against a level 12 Elementalist who casts Bolt on a 7+.   

imho Bolt should get a nerf like Summon Demon....where it all goes wrong on a natural roll of 1.

With the Caster getting attacked with a Shooting 8+ instead of the target.   

ps .we use plenty of terrain and my guy casts Fog on 7+.....its still going to be a hard fight !

[djicelatte]

my whole witch warband is built around fog and not getting shot with elemental bolt .

The main reason elemental bolt is by far the best spell is not just because its the strongest attack but because also the experience gained for the "wizard" killing people. thats why i think its more fair to just lower the exp and make it for all kills by anyone in the warband.

the 24 inch  range is for all LoS spells so it doesnt let the wizard just hide all the way in the back on the fourth floor of a huge tower and if they want the extra range they can learn the Wizard Eye spell for more map control

[djicelatte]

My experience of the game is close to that of the OP.

My Summoner  ( level 32), will be in fear of his life this Sunday when he goes up against a level 12 Elementalist who casts Bolt on a 7+.   

imho Bolt should get a nerf like Summon Demon....where it all goes wrong on a natural roll of 1.

With the Caster getting attacked with a Shooting 8+ instead of the target.   

ps .we use plenty of terrain and my guy casts Fog on 7+.....its still going to be a hard fight !

you should type up a Summoner guide for us to read. I may go with that class when we reroll our campaign and introduce our exp changes. I love love love the imp spell. the Imp always rolls so good in combat too  

[VisOne]

I have never seen a picture or battle report of anyone that uses more terrain then us .

Show us the density and positioning of your terrain then.

maybe we use to many tall ruined buildings

Almost certainly yes.

First rule of terrain placement I was taught at my club when I started playing Infinity is no sniper nests within any deployment zone. Because what you have spoken about elsewhere character sniping, rewarding turtling with ranged profiles (in this case wizards) is an easy win.



Terrain doesn't need to be ridiculously dense but you need to do something about your variation in height IF nothing else otherwise all the house rules in the world won't stop Killers being Killers.

Bartle's Taxonomy of Player Types can be seen in games like Frostgrave people who enjoy winning, direct peer to peer competition and basically just being dicks will always use OP/Cheese if its available that's what they get their kicks from. You need to try and alter the environment so they use the other methods of enjoying the game to offset that.

[zellak]

you should type up a Summoner guide for us to read. I may go with that class when we reroll our campaign and introduce our exp changes. I love love love the imp spell. the Imp always rolls so good in combat too  

My take on the Summoner would be very close to your thread on the Witch !

Except Summoners use demons for outnumbering the enemy and carrying treasure off the table.   

And aye, Imps are great for dropping distractions in the backfield. 

[Denizen Kane]

We had many of those issues when we started to play. I fixed it some with this