Need help...

[ARKOUDAKI]

Hi all,

I have a question that some of our more experienced sellers (and perhaps buyers) can help me with about eBay. In short, I sold some items to a person in Canada. The item listing clearly stated that the seller should take out insurance and if they didn't then they accepted all risks involved. I always get proof of posting on all items. The person has filed a claim without contacting me and I thinking this is a scam...but don't want to be out almost 40 quid (including the postage!).

Here is the message I sent the person via eBay along with the proof of posting:

"Dear Lizzie,

Please find attached the proof of posting for your items which was sent via Royal Mail on 22 Sept 2015. As you are aware, it clearly stated in the item listing that you should take out insurance or accept all risks involved. Unfortunately, you chose not to take out any insurance and therefore assumed all risk once the items were posted, which is confirmed by the proof of posting. As you are no doubt aware, these particular models (the items) are long out of production, and therefore can't be replaced. Hence, there is little else I can do for you.

Given your previous comments about problems with your postal deliveries in your area of Canada I am rather surprised that you decided to file a claim without first speaking with me, which is a common courtesy. As you know, I confirmed your shipment via eBay, even refunded you some of the postage (UK 2.75) via PayPal, and previously messaged you (as I do all my customers) to checked that your items arrived. That's when you informed me that you had problems with your postal deliveries. I subsequently asked you to confirm your mailing address details, as was provided to me via eBay. You did not respond. Thus, for you to instigate a claim now without having the courtesy of contacting me first when I have proven to be an excellent eBay seller is worrying. Nevertheless, one hopes that your items will indeed be delivered shortly. I can confirm that nothing has been returned to me here in the UK, and if it wasn't already delivered to your address given then it should have been. If anything is returned here to the UK then I will of course let you know.

I hope this clarifies matters."

Some thoughts and advice on all of this. I have never had a seller problem before on eBay so don't really know what will happen. I recall as a buyer the seller often loses but hope that in this case it won't happen to me.

Thanks in advance for sharing your expertise/experiences.

Arkoudaki!!!!!!!

[grant]

Stuff like this is why I won't eBay any more.

I had a set of Wings of War in the hard starter box. This schmuck wanted the planes only, no box or cards etc, and it would save him like $8 in postage as a result. I foam wrapped the planes, put them in a solid box, shipped. When they got there he claimed they were all broken - but would never send any pictures. Odd. I had all his communication demanding I take them out of the box etc, and when he filed his clearly scam claim, I won as it was his fault.

I closed my eBay account as soon as I could. eBay only serves mega sellers in China now. It's crap for little people like you and I. They want volume and lots of it. Their customer service centres are awful and cannot do anything for you.

If you lose your money (awful to be scammed) then close your eBay account and tell them why. Maybe they won't care.

[Wachaza]

If you're in the Uk and selling through ebay you cannot give buyers the option not to take insurance unless you know them well and trust them. Ebay will always pay out (using your money) if there isn't a valid tracking number showing delivery.

If you send it out uninsured a certificate of posting is useless if the value is over £20. RM won't pay out and ebay ignore them. If it's over £20 you must insist the buyer pays the international signed for fee as any agreement to the contrary is ignored by ebay. You can get the buyer to swear on the bible/koran/Spiderman #1 and sign in blood to take full responsibility for the non delivery and ebay won't pay a blind bit of attention to it.

[Eric the Shed]

I had very few issues and only traded in the UK...until this happened

 I sold some 10mm Minis not a lot about £6 worth on the winning bid - I included free postage.

The buyer paid and I posted - that should have been it. However two weeks later I got a note from the buyer saying the goods had not arrived. I shared a scan picture of the proof of postage.

The response from the buyer - that's my old address not my new one. I pointed out that it was their responsibility to update the records on where goods should be posted. How could I possibly know the buyer had moved?

I suggested to the buyer that he might want to go round to his old place (and see if the parcel was there as it was in the same town). He says he did but the goods were not there.

He complained to ebay...I complained back. Ebay listed me as a poor seller. They could not see that the buyer was at fault... I believe about 30 emails went back and forward (all for the sake of £6)

In the end I refunded the buyer - lesson learned the seller has no rights on this platform. I have not sold since

[grant]

I was stunned when I won my case. Seriously.

A free lesson, it's too bad so many others pay.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ ARKOUDAKI:

I think your reply seems fair to me, but unfortunately Wachaza is correct.

I do use ebay quite a bit, as a buyer, and generally tend to find myself buying from the same sellers a lot of the time because I quite frankly don't trust a lot of individuals.

I generally have a problem with about 1 in 15 auctions:

• I won the item "too cheap", so they pretend to ship and then refund me when it fails to arrive; a month later they ebay the exact same item again and it sells for a lot more.

• The item is marked "as new", and then they ship it in such poor packaging that I receive it damaged - happens a lot with books.

• The item is marked "as new", and then it turns out it isn't even remotely.

• The auction lists one item with a photo of the model (not a stock photo), and then I get sent a different copy of the same model in a totally different condition/configuration (or a different variant.

• The item turns out to be a fairly obvious fake despite the items in the auction photo being genuine.

• You return an item to a seller via registered mail (so PayPal and ebay don't screw you), and you get a refund for the item but not for the expensive return shipping.

If I've bought from a genuine seller, they are good about replacing missing items or offering something else of equivalent value. Trolltrader for example are excellent in their customer service of this sort.

Beyond that, I've stopped using ebay as much recently, and now limit myself more to the Chinese sellers for things like drillbits and screws, etc.

@ Eric the Shed:

Buyers also have no rights if they didn't follow ebay procedures at their own expense.

I recently returned an item that has been wrongly described at my expense, and when the seller failed to pay because the item hadn't arrived with him weeks later, ebay shrugged and said "bad luck" because I didn't fork out more of my own money for tracking (which is a fucking scam quite frankly).
Luckily, I did eventually get the refund (item only - not for the shipping), but I never found out if that was good conscience on the seller's part, or if the item mysteriously arrived at last and he released the refund.

Rather puts you off ebay regardless of being a seller or buyer.  

[ARKOUDAKI]

Thanks for all the info people...very depressing to read and from what it sounds, I will be out 40 quid on what appears to be a scam.

So if I am reading this, I should change all my auctions to insurance and tracking only...which contradicts eBay's push to give buyers free postage....the whole thing is screwy...

[Atheling]

Buyers also have no rights if they didn't follow ebay procedures at their own expense.

Unless they agree that the item will be shipped without insurance,which can be financially prohibitive, then just file a complain that the item hasn't arrived (in my case on two separate occasions with two separate items! One being probable, twice being an obvious rip off merchant!

I even had one buyer based in another country who put in a complaint that his item hadn't arrived after one day(!!??) and that effectively screwed up my rating as it was very early in my Ebay-ing days...... he then went on to receive the item but by then the damage was done. The guy didn't even apologize!

That's when I closed down my account in disgust.

Darrell.

[ARKOUDAKI]

Okay...finally heard back from the Buyer who after reading what I posted told me I was unprofessional and demanded their money back...I can now see clearly why they refused to take out insurance. This was the persons response:

"Hello, Your previous response was rather acerbic, churlish, rude and inaccurate. I have not, and shall not rise to the bait and discredit myself as you have done. In raising my request for a refund due to non-delivery of the goods I have bought and paid for (delivery included) I have acted professionally, politely, followed protocol, etiquette and exercised due diligence throughout. My address was confirmed at time of order and payment. I wrote in my requst "Postal service to Calgary is SOMETIMES worse than that of a 3rd world failed state", not always!. Your duty as a seller is to ensure the goods I’ve bought from you actually reach me. However the goods are not here and I request a full refund please. Regards"

I have responded but I believe that it will now be escalated via eBay. Any suggestions on how to best play this would be greatly appreciated.

I have already banned this particular Buyer and will never again send items to that part of Canada! Just a bad experience...

[grant]

I'm from Calgary.

We do not have third world postage here. Full stop. Your buyer is being a c***.

Tell him to look that word up in the dictionary. I've ordered from all over the world, and almost never had a problem. Once, a late delivery - a second set was sent of what I ordered. When the first finally showed I did the right thing and paid for it.

Calgary. What a c***.

[ARKOUDAKI]

It is actually not a he but a she...sorry but how many females collect Cromwell Models Modern British AFVs. I know we have a lot of female gamers but I haven't run into any that have acted like this.

So again, any advice on how best to play with when it gets escalated via Ebay....does anyone think I have a remote chance in hell of not losing 40 quid...which not only includes the cost of the items but the postage. Heck, I even refunded a few quid to her on the postage as I am too darn honest! What a sucker I am....

[grant]

It is actually not a he but a she...sorry but how many females collect Cromwell Models Modern British AFVs. I know we have a lot of female gamers but I haven't run into any that have acted like this.

So again, any advice on how best to play with when it gets escalated via Ebay....does anyone think I have a remote chance in hell of not losing 40 quid...which not only includes the cost of the items but the postage. Heck, I even refunded a few quid to her on the postage as I am too darn honest! What a sucker I am....

Calgary is a small place. Name her.

[Wachaza]

Calgary is a small place. Name her.

Female accounts bidding on gaming stuff are nearly always the wife/girlfriend/mum. In my experience often because the male of the household has got his account banned from ebay and the easiest way to open another account at the same address is to use another resident....

[ARKOUDAKI]

So this is the most recent exchange...

From the Buyer:

"Hello, Your response is unhelpful, accusative, ill-informed and quite frankly very rude, just as you have been from the start of this request. Postage paid was enough for airmail, tracked and 'signed for' which you didn't provide. The onus is still on you to deliver the goods paid for. Please refund me as the goods never arrived. I shall not rise to your 'baiting' nor play your silly games. I shall be asking for Ebay to reslove the matter in my favour."


I responded as follows:

"Dear Lizzie, Your claim that, "Postage paid was enough for airmail, tracked and 'signed for' which you didn't provide" is entirely false. As clearly stated in the item description, postage listed was for standard international shipping (not for signed for with tracking and insurance, which would have been substantially more for Canada). You were advised to take out insurance on your items and you declined to do so. You therefore accepted the risks involved once it was posted. I have already provided you with proof of posting. You have freely admitted problems with deliveries to your mailing address (which you failed to confirm despite my request that you do so). I have confirmed that the items have not been returned to the UK, which they would have if they were not in fact delivered to your address. It seems to me pretty clear what you are trying to do here and why you declined insurance. A very sad state of affairs."


I must admit that this is really upsetting me...I have never had such a bad experience on eBay...perhaps I have been lucky. I had some problems previously as a buyer but I always worked with the seller to make it work. This just stinks of a scam to me. 

Next step will be eBay's intervention, and from what I hear, this goes against the Seller every time....so again, any suggestions from past experiences would be most welcome. 

[Major_Gilbear]

Next step will be eBay's intervention, and from what I hear, this goes against the Seller every time....so again, any suggestions from past experiences would be most welcome. 

No, not always. If you have a chain of messages through ebay where you offer insurance and she declines it, I think Ebay will find in your favour.

Also female account name =/= female correspondent. As noted above, you don't know who's logged into an account - it could even be a hacked account!

The real problem is that Ebay don't want to get involved, and do everything they can to avoid getting involved; when they do, they go down the line of who best followed Ebay protocol. Hence why if you followed it and she declined it, they will side with you.

I would suggest that you politely list the time and dates of the messages you exchanged in which you tried to establish the correct details and shipping method, as that helps Ebay find them (and in turn helps Ebay side with you).

Unfortunately, some stuff does go missing - it's happened to me a couple of times on Ebay, just as it has on "proper" webstores elsewhere.

On the other hand, sometimes stuff turns up months later, and I always make a point of contacting the seller to advise them and ask if they'd like me to return it - I feel that if they sent me a refund or replacement, I should treat them with the same respect and honesty by return. My contacting them on these occasions always surprises them!

Good luck.