Are you a gaming snob?

[jon_1066]

The more I read the opinions of others.The more its seems the best way to sum the general philosophy that's filtering through (if a little bluntly put)is-'It is not for me to lower my standards to be inclusive,It is for you to raise yours in order to be included That's not being a snob.Its being an adult who's comfortable in their own skin,and has realised that being good. At something doesn't need apologising for.

Is that.  The Captain Kirk way. Of saying. It?

That does sound like snobbery to me.  Reach my heights or don't bother coming.  There is a world of difference between putting on a demo game at a convention, playing at a club and having a game at home.  I would expect anyone putting on a demo game to actually bring painted figures and have some reasonable terrain - or why bother.  Likewise a tournament player should bring a painted army.  If my mate asked for a game and didn't paint their figures I wouldn't refuse to play them.  I would also ask them back again as well - shock horror!  Who refuses to ask a friend round simply because they haven't got a painted force that meets some "basic" standard?  It's also not very welcoming to strangers, youngsters or new players is it?  Not everyone is retired or works as a teacher with oodles of free time (that was a joke!)

[Captain Blood]

It's obviously a contentious issue which people take different views on, but let's not let the discussion heat up please

[eilif]

As far as I'm concerned, playing with unpainted miniatures is a different hobby. I hope you enjoy it, have fun.

I am under no obligation to allow you to play with your unpainted miniatures on my painted table with my painted miniatures. I will not share my time and effort equally with your no time and no effort to satisfy your misplaced sense of entitlement.

Are you referring to soley to not sharing your table with unpainted minis or not sharing your table with those who don't want to paint minis?

The more I read the opinions of others.The more its seems the best way to sum the general philosophy that's filtering through (if a little bluntly put)is-'It is not for me to lower my standards to be inclusive,It is for you to raise yours in order to be included That's not being a snob.Its being an adult who's comfortable in their own skin,and has realised that being good. At something doesn't need apologising for.

I generally agree, but I think there is something to be said for leaning toward inclusiveness. I think we can hold fast to our standards while striving for inclusiveness.  There are well-meaning folks who enjoy the hobby, but just don't have the time to paint as much.  Also, some diverse clubs will play enough different games that no member could hope to have minis for every game night.  I think that the answer is not exclusion and it is certainly not to welcome unpainted minis onto the table.  Rather the balanced approach is to share one's painted miniatures and terrain.

Of course if they continually show no inclination at all to participate in the visual aspect of the game and begin to feel like leeches, then you may have to reconsider playing with that person, but for me the default setting is definitely "Inclusion without pandering" or, put another way, "Accommodation without compromise."

[Momotaro]

I enjoy my hobby the way I want to enjoy it. For me that involves painted miniatures and terrain for the reasons Captain Blood has elaborated on many times.
However, I don't care how you enjoy your hobby and I don't think any less of you because you may have a different viewpoint to me. I expect the same in return.
As far as I'm concerned, playing with unpainted miniatures is a different hobby. I hope you enjoy it, have fun.

I take exception when someone tries to gatecrash my hobby and demands that I do things their way. I am under no obligation to allow you to play with your unpainted miniatures on my painted table with my painted miniatures. I will not share my time and effort equally with your no time and no effort to satisfy your misplaced sense of entitlement.

Sorry, this is a total strawman.  How many people are banging on your front door clutching piles of unpainted lead, demanding to "gatecrash" your games and forcing you to play what they want?  That's right, absolutely none.  No-one in this thread, and certainly no-one in real life is demanding that you personally play against shoebox Land Raiders or Coke-can Dreadnoughts.

On the other side of the argument, there are people calling for "standards" in wargaming and people who tell you what they are "prepared to consider" - dip isn't painting, pre-coloured lasercut buildings somehow don't qualify for enough effort.  The trouble is, it never ends - no prepaints... no models from the early years of the war... no proxies...

If I were playing a stranger, I'd expect to have a discussion about the nature of the game, a "social contract" if you want to get wordy about it, to ensure we both had fun.  If someone gave me the kind of list of expectations I've seen in this thread, I'd simply walk away.  Whatever I think of the quality of their models and terrain, I simply can't see myself having fun with them.

I expect some of you feel the same way about me by this point - I have no problem with that.

I accept that people have different time constraints and budget - I spend a lot of my time on the road with work and I just don't have the time to paint and build that I used to.  I'm not prepared to judge my friends, or potential friends, on how much time they put into the hobby.

Ironically I have, as my fellow Lincolnites will attest, several thousand models painted, however badly, covering a dozen genres and comprising a number of forces for each.  I have dozens of terrain pieces, either scratch-built or hand painted, and if you ever need an army to play round here, all I ask is that you bring a relaxed attitude and good company.

Maybe booze and nibbles...  but mostly good company.

Many of the most enthusiastic and involved hobbyists I've met locally are the hardcore GW tourney payers - people who will spend weekends gaming with empty bases to get a feel for a unit before they buy.  Now that's not my style either, but are we in the same hobby?  I say yes.  

Miniatures War Gaming, three facets to the hobby, and while clearly a love of miniatures is important, no-one has the right to demand that any one balance between the three is the correct one.  The right to choose for themselves and play with like-minded friends?  No-one is questioning that.

I'm not posting this to inflame tensions.  I joined LAF because it was an open and accepting forum - enthusiastic about the many wonderful projects on display here, but supportive of any effort.  Long may that spirit continue.

[Harry Faversham]

Twenty seven people hammered on my door last week demanding to gatecrash my games using their crap painted figures... I killed 'em all!

[matakishi]

Sorry, this is a total strawman.  How many people are banging on your front door clutching piles of unpainted lead, demanding to "gatecrash" your games and forcing you to play what they want?  That's right, absolutely none.  No-one in this thread, and certainly no-one in real life is demanding that you personally play against shoebox Land Raiders or Coke-can Dreadnoughts.

I think you missed the point.
The gate crashing is metaphorical, illustrated by lots of whiney replies every time someone says they like playing with painted miniatures.

I have never ever told anyone how to enjoy their hobby, nor will I.
I expect the same consideration from others.

[Momotaro]

I think you missed the point.
The gate crashing is metaphorical, illustrated by lots of whiney replies every time someone says they like playing with painted miniatures.

Still not seeing it.

I have never ever told anyone how to enjoy their hobby, nor will I.
I expect the same consideration from others.

We're on the same page then

[Momotaro]

Twenty seven people hammered on my door last week demanding to gatecrash my games using their crap painted figures... I killed 'em all!

Did you kill them and take their stuff though? 

[matakishi]

Still not seeing it.

You should read the replies to this article for some examples then
http://chicagoskirmish.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/painting-matters-in-defense-of-hobby.html

[scrivs]

I am a bit of a snob and will not play with unpainted figures and expect people using my figures to be considerate of them. Gaming is a broad church and there is room for all of us to enjoy it how we see fit.

As a friend once summed it up though, "It's a bit like 'Readers Wives.' What you do in the privacy of your own environment is your business, however, we don't necessarily want to see it in public"

[Vermis]

It's obviously a contentious issue which people take different views on, but let's not let the discussion heat up please

I like gaming snobs - I like gaming slobs too. But which is better? There's only one way to find out...

[Elbows]

Fight to the death!

[harleyface]

This is one of the very interesting discussion i really would like to write something but its difficult for me to write in english.
But heres also my first point 
I never heard anything about my limited english here or somthing bad about my painting or about my terrible photos.
Reading this discussion it feels like talking about the wrong forum 
Everybody is kind and ecouraging..
The worst thing ever happened to me here is that some of my comments are just not heard 
ok back to topic..
The old problem ..time
I became more painter than gamer because i became a snob..
im quite interested in games no one plays here so im often painting 2 forces to play some games with my buddys...if someone gets interested how could he get immedeatly a painted force..so im playing painted and he in the works or we dont play...beeing to much of a snob leads to be a very lonly gamer/painter in my experience
so..yes..im a gaming snob but i lower my expectation without hesitating to have a good time with my friends
my two cents
Florian

[LawnRanger]

 I would not call it Snobby,..

I just think is wargaming MANNERS to have your figures painted on the table.

 Lets face its any monkey can have unpainted stuff  on the table  BUT a true wargamer  would not dream of having stuff on the table unpainted HE will have taken time  and money too get his army up to a like able  standard  .

WE would not dream of letting YOUR  opponent stare at a unpainted army for hours on end .I always enjoy looking at my opponents army and seeing  how hes based them ,painted there uniforms ect , and the type of figure /make he is fielding ... I  get so much info that way than reading it in the mag..

I am happy to say that in my  wargame  life i have never played against any one, that has put out unpainted stuff,

Happy gaming LR






I must say I do think that fantasy and sci-fi is a different kettle of fish..

[obsidian3d]

*cue Star Trek fight music!*