Are you a gaming snob?

[Silent Invader]

I'm totally fine with painted miniatures as something to aspire to, especially ones as well painted as the ones in option A. But aspiration doesn't mean that everything else is invalid.

But to me, aspiration does mean that everything else is invalid. Thus for me, wargames that I participate in - whether as player or as audience - require painted minis, plus believable terrain, uncomplicated rules that do not reward gamesmanship, and 'fun time' companions whose attitude to wargaming I share. Similarly, I come to LAF for all of these things.

[Gibby]

I think this thread has been damaging to the LAF in a way.

Somehow I think one thing that has been hinted at but not addressed due to the weight of the unpainted vs painted argument is this: What about the work of those with less than stellar skills? Lots of posts here feature work just not on the same level as the top tier folk here, but still ooze with enthusiasm and love of the hobby. From some responses in the thread, I get the feeling that some people would pat them on the head and say "Good for you, but it isn't quite good enough for me to possibly game with."

I hope that the LAF isn't just about the celebration of its most talented contributors. No doubt they are a big part of it and so they should be. I think we're all here to enjoy each other's work and hopefully share our own. That isn't to say that this shouldn't be about hobby discussion, or even just posting compliments or enquiries about the work of others. I myself haven't posted much of my own stuff, and I am concerned that now I will be considered un-LAF like in the eyes of some. Most of my contributions have been detailed battle reports, with scenery and figures I think many would be happy to game with. Even if sometimes the baseline is a felt battle mat.

[Hammers]

It's art.

Indeed.

[Hammers]

I think this thread has been damaging to the LAF in a way.

Somehow I think one thing that has been hinted at but not addressed due to the weight of the unpainted vs painted argument is this: What about the work of those with less than stellar skills? Lots of posts here feature work just not on the same level as the top tier folk here, but still ooze with enthusiasm and love of the hobby. From some responses in the thread, I get the feeling that some people would pat them on the head and say "Good for you, but it isn't quite good enough for me to possibly game with."

I hope that the LAF isn't just about the celebration of its most talented contributors. No doubt they are a big part of it and so they should be. I think we're all here to enjoy each other's work and hopefully share our own. That isn't to say that this shouldn't be about hobby discussion, or even just posting compliments or enquiries about the work of others. I myself haven't posted much of my own stuff, and I am concerned that now I will be considered un-LAF like in the eyes of some. Most of my contributions have been detailed battle reports, with scenery and figures I think many would be happy to game with. Even if sometimes the baseline is a felt battle mat.

I dont share that view at all. There is such a thing as inspiration and a strife for improvement. Point me a wargaming forum which is more sharing, constructing, encouraging...

[OSHIROmodels]

I dont share that view at all. There is such a thing as inspiration and a strife for improvement. Point me a wargaming forum which is more sharing, constructing, encouraging...

Seconded 

cheers

James

[Lovejoy]

Which would you rather play with?

A

or B

I agree with Dim Reaper to be honest; it was a very biased example.

Try this:
Would you rather play with A


or B

Or even not get a game at all?

So of course if it's a choice between painted or unpainted, we'll all pick painted. But if it's between unpainted and paper chits, we'd pick unpainted.

I hope that the LAF isn't just about the celebration of its most talented contributors.

Honestly, I don't think it is - I think the really well painted and modelled stuff is inspiring, but so is seeing a full complement of gamers/modellers of all levels, ages and experience. Just seeing the hobby alive and growing is inspirational! I think the LAF showcases the full range pretty well.

[Gibby]

I dont share that view at all. There is such a thing as inspiration and a strife for improvement. Point me a wargaming forum which is more sharing, constructing, encouraging...

Neither do I, to be clear. Some posts just had a slight implication of that, whether intentional or not.

[Silent Invader]

Neither do I, to be clear. Some posts just had a slight implication of that, whether intentional or not.

I'm inclined to think that the implication was unintended. I've always found LAFers to be most encouraging of those who want to do their best. I was an absolute novice when I joined with a skill level to match.  

PS: I wouldn't play with the chits OR the unpainted 

[Malamute]

PS: I wouldn't play with the chits OR the unpainted 

Neither would I. I guess that makes me a snob as well.

[Captain Blood]

Dear Lord. Life, surely, is too short.
The question posed by the OP has been hijacked to become about painted vs. unpainted figures.
'Snobbery' (or taste, or discretion, or standards if you prefer) could apply to rules, buildings, choice of figures, terrain and scenery, what type of game, who you play with, which shows you attend, what paints you use (or not), which online forums you take part in - the list is endless. The painted vs unpainted argument is as old as the hills but is just one aspect of a bigger picture.

Most people get into wargaming in the first place because of the visual appeal. It's not the ability to play games with a complicated rulebook that is the draw. People are attracted by the sight of brightly painted little soldiers on gorgeous little landscapes - and then they find out there's a way you can use them for playing games by using rules. And off they go. It becomes about the gaming and the rules as well as the look and the feel. For some people, this becomes the dominant interest - and that's perfectly fine. What that does NOT entitle those people to do, is to go around proclaiming that the visual aspect of wargaming - actually integral to the form - is unimportant.

It's a visual hobby first and foremost. But amongst those that don't want to paint or model, or can't be bothered, or don't have the aptitude, or a steady hand, or the eyesight, or the patience, or the time, or the money, a counter-narrative has gradually been established that 'it doesn't matter what it looks like'. This is a smokescreen to spare the blushes of those wargamers who can't or won't - for all the reasons just listed - take their games to a certain level of presentation. I'm sure many people actually end up believing it. But it's fundamentally dishonest and it's not true.

[Rhoderic]

This thread began life as a self-deprecating confessional. It was in that spirit I posted my first reply to it (I was the third poster to the thread, counting the OP), calling myself a "snob" self-deprecatingly, in light-hearted confession, acknowledging it as part of "the problem with me" but being prepared to shrug it off because, hey, I'm still having fun.

That's not what the thread is any longer. We seem to have been gradually egging each other on to make increasingly bold, impenitent statements, which concern themselves less and less with the posters' own selves and more and more with "that other lot". It's only natural that they provoked a counter-reaction from people seeing this discussion in a slightly different, but equally valid, light.

I wouldn't have bothered replying to this thread had I come across it only now and it turned out the same even without my earlier participation. Self-deprecatingly, I'm a snob. I'm not interested in wearing an admission of snobbery as a badge of honour.

[Daniel36]

I wouldn't call what you describe as being a snob, I call everyone who doesn't live by that criteria a gaming dud...

But perhaps that is snobism talking.

[LeadAsbestos]

Lock it. Nothing but bad vibes left on this thread. No good will come of it at this point. 

[Dr DeAth]

Lock it. Nothing but bad vibes left on this thread. No good will come of it at this point. 

Seconded

[OSHIROmodels]

Lock it. Nothing but bad vibes left on this thread. No good will come of it at this point. 

Thirded