Two quick questions about Lanciarii

[Richard in Sachsen]

I was wondering if anyone would be kind enough to answer a couple of questions for me as I'm putting together some Lanciarii tomorrow. I've looked in what literature I have but haven't found what I'm looking for.

Firstly, I need to cut wire spears, so, how long actually was the Lancea? I've seen on the internets anything from 1.5 meters to 6 to 9 feet. I was thinking of cutting the spears to 35mm, but I am not sure if that is too long.

Secondly, did they carry more than one spear? That is relevant to whether I drill a hole in their shield hands and add another spear and whether I add javelin cases to their backs.

Which brings back around to my first question as the javelin cases are from Essex and the javelins are about 1.5 meters long to scale. Which looks kinda ridiculous if the spears they're holding are 35mm long.

With my skirmishers, I usually add the javelin cases with Green Stuff straps, and matching javelins in both hands. But I'm really not certain when it comes to Lanciarii and like most other things concerning tiny details of the Late Roman army, there is a frustrating lack of any definitive information.

However, there is a great, big chance that most here know more than I. So I am very appreciative of any information you might share.

Thanks

[mrtn]

If you want to get even more confused, read this from an excellent site on the Notitia Dignitatum (which you may or may not know about already).

I don't even know what a lanciarius is any more. 

[Mad Doc Morris]

I don't even know what a lanciarius is any more. 

Nobody should, considering the evidence. True for most things of the Ancient period, admittedly.

However, wargaming isn't science (well, for most), so we may go for cliché and exaggeration. Let's assume that we're talking about 3rd/4th century infantrymen armed with throwing spears. Simply for practical purposes have a look at Phil Hendry's nicely executed solution here. For my taste their javelins are a bit too long. But that's probably backed by the scarce – and highly stylised – pictorial evidence, which show lanciarii clutching a bundle of five shoulder-high spears. Here's a small collection of images (scroll down).
Roman cavalry wielding throwing spears (the term 'lancea' first appears in this context) used quivers, and therefore it is not unlikely that quivers were also adopted by similarly equipped infantrymen.

[Richard in Sachsen]

Thanks, mrtn. Yes, I couldn't have done this massive late Roman project without Luke's informative website.

And thanks, Mad Doc. That link to Phil Henry's site doesn't seem to work for me - can't find the server. But I will probably use quivers just on the skirmishers, I think, and place shoulder or head-high spears in the throwing and shield hands of the Lanciarii. I think it communicates the idea well enough for the gaming table.

I essentially have my comentatenses divided into six odines. Four are standard milites, one is an archer/light infantry, and the other is Lanciarii. Basically, I wanted a light infantry ordines that rushed out of the ranks to throw their Lancea and to follow-up on broken units. Each ordine consists of twenty figures. Additionally, two eight-man units of skirmishers: javelins and slingers, and finally a command stand. That's about as close to a comentantensis as I can get within the various rules. My auxilia units have are pretty much the same except that they contain only two twenty-figure milites ordines.

I think that may be the solution: just a short spear in each hand on an open-order movement tray and that should be pretty clear what their function in on the table.

Thanks both of you for the advice