Starguard 7th edition?

[grubman]

So, a select few of you may remember a series of threads I did about Starguard when it was in it's 5th edition.  I did lots of painting and terrain building before I got the rules...which turned out to be an incomprehensible, incomplete, unplayable hot mess.

Fast forward to today, when I find out there is a 7th edition available ( http://www.tin-soldier.com/sgrules.html ).  Unfortunately I can't find a real review anywhere.  Did anyone pick up the PDF or rulebook?  Is it still a mess, or has it been rewritten, organized, and edited into something that can actually be learned and played?

Thanks.

[baldlea]

If that webpage is anything to go by.....

[Major_Gilbear]

The fact that they don't tell you what they updated since the last edition is pretty telling too... I personally would email and ask them before blindly buying it again - it might just be that 7E is a mere reformatting into PDF and nothing more!

@ grubman: was yours the Dreenoi army with the pink terrain? If so, I enjoyed reading all about that, and often wondered what eventually came of your efforts!

[grubman]

The fact that they don't tell you what they updated since the last edition is pretty telling too... I personally would email and ask them before blindly buying it again - it might just be that 7E is a mere reformatting into PDF and nothing more!

@ grubman: was yours the Dreenoi army with the pink terrain? If so, I enjoyed reading all about that, and often wondered what eventually came of your efforts!

Yep, that was me...and nothing happened because the rules were unplayable to us....but I'd love the chances to try it again with some descent rules.

[whitphoto]

The website clearly states it emphasizes playability. Calm down!

[grubman]

The website clearly states it emphasizes playability. Calm down!

Wow...first troll I've ever seen on this forum.

[eilif]

Hmm, Starguard PDF for 10 bucks.  Does make it a bit tempting, if only just to see what the grandaddy of sci-fi wargames has become. Still, even at that low price I'd rather wait to see what the reports are first.  Reports of the 5th edition  (http://www.matakishi.com/starguard5.htm) were not encouraging.

[YPU]

We are getting to the point we should have a forum reviewer, everybody pitch in a dollar and vote for what rule-set you want to know is any good. 

[Conquistador]

We are getting to the point we should have a forum reviewer, everybody pitch in a dollar and vote for what rule-set you want to know is any good. 

By what criteria?  What plays well varies by what you want in the rules.  I personally think 40k is the worst SF rules I ever suffered playing but others loved the game.  Wrong for me but right for them.

Remember Starguard was one of the first SF rules back in the dark ages (35? 40? More? years ago.). Played many a game quite easily but had experienced players guiding the learning curve.  Honestly, sold the rules years ago for design aspects that I felt had aged  less than gracefully.  Fond memories but, like your first girl friend, things change.

[YPU]

By what criteria?  What plays well varies by what you want in the rules.  I personally think 40k is the worst SF rules I ever suffered playing but others loved the game.  Wrong for me but right for them.

Remember Starguard was one of the first SF rules back in the dark ages (35? 40? More? years ago.). Played many a game quite easily but had experienced players guiding the learning curve.  Honestly, sold the rules years ago for design aspects that I felt had aged  less than gracefully.  Fond memories but, like your first girl friend, things change.

Objective review is a bit of a oxymoron, but we often find ourselves asking specific questions with nobody with the rules at hand to answer.

[Conquistador]

Objective review is a bit of a oxymoron, but we often find ourselves asking specific questions with nobody with the rules at hand to answer.

Those are more the "How does this play?" Nuts and bolts type questions that a good review should/might cover.  The best place for my THW rules questions is a forum run by Ed Tiexera who writes many of the rules but not every game writer/designer chooses that helpful option.

I hear people complain about people overburdening them with games mechanics aspects in a AAR or BATREP but sometimes those are the very questions that I want to know before buying a rule set for $30 to $50 dollars.

Black Widow Pilot (?) on another forum is an old school war gamer who can answer many questions about the current incarnation of Starguard but it has been awhile since I have read anything he posted.

[Conquistador]

BTW, I learned late (3rd edition) which I mostly played then owned 5th or 6th edition so it may have changed a bit since then.

Leland R. Ericksen (Spelling) is who I as thinking of...

[grubman]

BTW, I learned late (3rd edition) which I mostly played then owned 5th or 6th edition so it may have changed a bit since then.

Leland R. Ericksen (Spelling) is who I as thinking of...

I have 3rd edition.  A ton has changed between that and 5th edition (about 150 MORE pages of incomprehensibly written rules).  Also, only about 1/2 the races/factions, and equipment were in 3rd edition.  I got 3rd edition after trying to gronk 5th edition.  I figured this thin little book would be a piece of cake, and I could finally play SG.  Unfortunately, these rules make Chainmail look like a masterpiece of writing and clarity.

Anyone (online) I've ever heard say anything good about SG, or with fond memories ALWAYS says they played it at a con with John (or one of his immediate gaming circle).  I've never heard of one person who has picked this up on their own and comprehended and played it.

I know it sounds like I'm being negative.  I'm not trying to, I've always wanted to play this, and I love the miniatures...I just can't understand why, if he is serious about keeping the game "alive" as more than a novelty that people take a look at and never play, he doesn't collaborate with someone who can edit the game into something that actually has a chance of gaining a fan base. 

[eilif]

By what criteria?  What plays well varies by what you want in the rules.  I personally think 40k is the worst SF rules I ever suffered playing but others loved the game.  Wrong for me but right for them.

Criteria is tough.  It's all hypothetical, but I think rather than too many specific requirements, it'd probably come down to choosing a person who has written alot of rule reviews in the past that a large number of forum members have found useful.  For example, I think that even if I disagree somewhat with his observations, Matashiki and his group generally give me a pretty good idea what's in a ruleset and whether it's something I'd be interested in.  There are other folks that I probably feel similarly about, but I can't recall them right now.

Generally though it seems that a new set of rules almost always generates enough reviews at LeadAd, TMP, Dakka, folks' blogs (or just asking my gaming group) that it's not long before it's very clear whether a given ruleset is something I'd be interested in.

[Conquistador]

I have 3rd edition.  A ton has changed between that and 5th edition (about 150 MORE pages of incomprehensibly written rules).  Also, only about 1/2 the races/factions, and equipment were in 3rd edition.  I got 3rd edition after trying to gronk 5th edition.  I figured this thin little book would be a piece of cake, and I could finally play SG.  Unfortunately, these rules make Chainmail look like a masterpiece of writing and clarity.

Anyone (online) I've ever heard say anything good about SG, or with fond memories ALWAYS says they played it at a con with John (or one of his immediate gaming circle).  I've never heard of one person who has picked this up on their own and comprehended and played it.

I know it sounds like I'm being negative.  I'm not trying to, I've always wanted to play this, and I love the miniatures...I just can't understand why, if he is serious about keeping the game "alive" as more than a novelty that people take a look at and never play, he doesn't collaborate with someone who can edit the game into something that actually has a chance of gaining a fan base. 

John (born 1945) is an old school gentleman who can be contacted on the the www.tin-soldier.com website via the last button on the top right "contact us" of the Starguard page - go to science fiction - Starguard.  In the past I bought his rules and figures to feed my SF gaming habit.  He was very polite and open in his answers.