Pulp Alley with children?

[BugPope]

So my seven years old nephew (let's call him V) saw pictures of my Pulp Alley terrain, and decided he wants to play it with me. Which I get, I'd want the same thing if I found out my uncle had cool toys. And I love playing games with him (even if he sometimes get upset over there being rules), and I've read all these articles about people talking about playing tabletop wargames with children and being surprised by how well it went.

So here's a few thoughts I had:
My sister kinda disapproves of V playing violent games. Cartoon violence is okay, but more realistic violence against humans or animals is probably pushing it. The easy way to solve this is if I play monsters, but it also made me wonder how one could make a non-violent Pulp Alley scenario, where the focus is purely on getting Plot Points instead of fighting each other. Can you do that without it turning into both players basically playing by themselves, without affecting each other much?

While the basic rules are very simple (in my experience, the only thing new players tend to have trouble with is dice matching, and once they grasp that, it's fine), I worry that the cards would become a problem. V can read (some) English, but keeping track on which cards he has, what they do and when he can play them will be difficult. The simple solution to this is to have both players play with open hands (so I can help him with the cards) or have another adult assist him, but would it also be possible to play Pulp Alley without giving Fortune cards to players? You'd simply just have Extremely Perilous Terrain, and so on. Would this overly simplify the game? Note that I'm not suggesting this as a rule change, just something to make the game a bit easier to grasp for a child.

Also general thread about playing wargames with younger people, I suppose.

[ojdota]

As someone who plays pulp alley solo all the time without fortune cards, I can say that the game works just fine without them.

[Maj Guiscard]

2 suggestions for you

1. Simplified Stats
When I play PA with younger kids, I use only one set of dice for each character.  A set of 3d10 for Leaders, a set of 3d8 for Sidekicks and other elites, and a set of 3d6 for all the other redshirts.  They don't have to remember or look up different dice combos for different attributes.  Using the cards will work with the simplified attributes.
After they've played a couple of games, I start adding special abilities to their leaders and we slowly work more toward the standard rules each game after.

2. Social Adventures!
My daughter will occasionally play games with me.  She will play straight up wargames, but she sometimes enjoys a modified game where the "combat" isn't violence, but banter between the characters and the worst outcomes are hurt feelings. I have 2 batreps of Christmas Holiday Balls as examples...

2 Christmases Ago
http://govgensectorsix.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-goodwill-ambassadors-tour-ep-1.html
Last Christmas
http://govgensectorsix.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-3rd-annual-princess-sophies-holiday.html

Hope this helps...

[BugPope]

2. Social Adventures!
My daughter will occasionally play games with me.  She will play straight up wargames, but she sometimes enjoys a modified game where the "combat" isn't violence, but banter between the characters and the worst outcomes are hurt feelings.

As a roleplayer, I love this idea. Also very pulpy. How do you handle that, mechanically? Just rename the Shoot skill as "Banter" or something?

[warlord frod]

Take a page out of some of the old pulp stories. Doc savage did not kill his opponents intentionally he subdued them and then sent to an institution to be reformed. I often changed the idea from dead to KOed (The language of Hero clixs) so no one ever dies  This requires only a change in language not game play. Tell the kids they are shooting tranq darts 

[d phipps]

.....it also made me wonder how one could make a non-violent Pulp Alley scenario, where the focus is purely on getting Plot Points instead of fighting each other. Can you do that without it turning into both players basically playing by themselves, without affecting each other much?

Yes and yes.

There is a scenario in our Vice Alley book called "Social Affair" that does not permit any combat. No shooting. No brawling. Instead, the characters have to use their Cunning, Finesse, and so on to outwit their opponents.

Also, we do co-op scenarios in Pulp Alley. Basically, this changes the opposing characters from enemies to "friends". You can still add some wandering baddies to the table if you still want a little fighting. Otherwise, this makes the scenario more of a race to see who can collect more plot points before time runs out. FYI -- the rules do not permit attacking your "friends". The rules are already designed for this sort of play as well.

...would it also be possible to play Pulp Alley without giving Fortune cards to players?

Certainly, I still forget to play most of my cards anyway! 

Just make all perils a random card flip will work perfectly fine.

Take a page out of some of the old pulp stories. Doc savage did not kill his opponents intentionally he subdued them...

Yes, that is how Pulp Alley works. Although characters get KO'd, they can be right back in the action in the next scenario, or you can choose to roll for a Harrowing Escape.
A player can choose to kill off one of their own characters, but this is normally done as part of their storyline. I always felt this also represented how characters reappear in old cliffhanger serials and so on.



I think the youngest that I have seen play Pulp Alley was an 8 y-o. And he caught on far quicker than some adults. I think it was because of the video games. 


When you play, don't try to explain too many rules at the start. I find that it is best to just start playing.


HAVE FUN

[Maj Guiscard]

As a roleplayer, I love this idea. Also very pulpy. How do you handle that, mechanically? Just rename the Shoot skill as "Banter" or something?

As Mr. Phipps wrote above, there are Pulp Alley official scenarios that use the "Cunning" and "Finesse" attributes, and that's pretty much how we run them for our Pulp Alley Social games.
"Cunning" becomes the primary "combat" skill, and "Finesse" works like Dodge.

[gary42]

This is one of three reasons I love this game!

[warrenpeace]

BugPope, a couple of things you could point out to your sister:

1. Pulp Alley was developed in playtesting with kids, particularly Dave's daughter Mila.

2. The violence in Pulp Alley is somewhat abstracted. As you know from playing, the game doesn't get graphic in its results, such as having an arm blown off or a big hole put into a lung, and players don't see how long it takes for a character to bleed out and die. The health level effects and getting knocked down and knocked out, with many characters surviving, are a lot softer and more abstract than the combat results in some other games. I'd say it's "kid friendly."

[BugPope]

Never said my sister was opposed to Pulp Alley. Just that my models have realistic guns, and that tends to be where she draws the line. Also, different parents have different boundaries for their kids, so the "other parents say it's okay for their kids" argument is kinda strange.

[d phipps]

Very cool! I hope you let us know how it goes. 

[BugPope]

Could you explain how the non-violent conflict (ie talking) rules worked in Vice Alley, or do I have to buy the book to find out?

I should also add that when V asked what Pulp Alley was, my answer was that it's an adventure game where you collect treasure in the jungle. While this is of course a simplification, I really do see Pulp Alley more like an adventure game than a wargame (which is the perfect tone for a pulp game).
One thing I'm curious about is how he'll react to the narrative aspect of Pulp Alley, especially Perils. When I've played with adults, nobody's really been interested in imagining what "roll two hits with Finesse" actually looks like within the story of the game. It's just a dice roll you make so that you can win the game.
Which is fine, but I have a hunch that children would be more into the storytelling aspect of the game, making up what kind of dangerous predicament their hero just fell into, and how they overcame it.
I think that's more interesting for a child than military tactics, which is why Pulp Alley seems like a good place to start for him.

I'll probably treat all perilous terrain as extreme, since I don't think V has the patience to keep cards on his hand for very long, and it makes it feel less personal when it's not the opponent who causes bad stuff to happen to him.

[gary42]

Basically heath is abstracted.  2 wounds doesn'mean a wounded arm and a grazed head.  It means you may be unable to continue the fight...Or the argument.  I could mean the you'very been insulted so bad you have to leave.  Instead of rolling combat stats (Shoot, brawl or dodge) you roll non combat stats (Finesse, cunning or might).  If you miss your finesse roll maybe you did really bad in the break dance fight:)

Follow?

[BugPope]

I get that, but which skills are used for "offense" and "defense"? Is Finesse used for every "attack", or is it just for close combat, etc. That's the kind of stuff I'm asking about. I understand the concept, I'm asking about the mechanics.

[d phipps]

In the Vice Alley scenario, "Social Affair" --

Attack: the attacker (active character) may choose any of their Action skills (Might, Finesse, Cunning) to attack an enemy.
> Note, represents an attempt to intimidate, trick, or embarrass the target -- it is not an actual physical attack.

React: For this scenario, the defender must use the same skill selected by the attacker.
> Note, this meant there is an advantage to being the attacker. And even a low level character can be fairly effective if you pick your fights. 

Now that you know what dice each character is rolling, you resolve it like a normal fight....

1. Roll
2. Attacker can match/cancel
3. Count hits
4. Roll Health checks (if needed)


I hope that helps.