Dragon Rampant Skirmish

[Furstenburg]

Has anyone tried Dragon Rampant as a Skirmish system?

I'm thinking of making all models have 6 wounds and playing on a 3x3 or 4x4 table.

So elite foot/elite riders/warbeasts would be represented by a single model. infantry/archers etc would be 2 models.

Would mean my dwarf force would consist of 8 miniatures

[Engel]

I havnt tried it like that, but it would work. I have met an Elven lord, single model Elite Foot and he was nasty to my light infantry goblins. 

So go a head.

[Hobgoblin]

Somebody - apologies, I forget who - posted a series of reports on barbarians vs undead games with very low model counts (most units were one to three models). And it's certainly been discussed before.

It'd work perfectly well, I'd say - except that there are aspects of an individual-model game that DR doesn't cater for (climbing, leaping, ducking, etc.). For that reason, I don't see why one would play DR this way, rather than use - say - Song of Blades and Heroes, which has similar activation mechanisms but many more individual-model provisions. Or Dan Mersey's tremendous SBH variant, Song of Arthur and Merlin. I'd say that SBH or SAM are better tools for a individual-model game.

One other thing: some of DR's mechanisms are quite group-specific - Wall of Spears, Ranger and the like. It's easy to see why rough terrain would disadvantage a group of light infantry who fight in formation with spears, but harder to see why it would disadvantage just one or two light infantrymen.

Those objections aside, I'm sure it would give a good game.

[maxxon]

I guess it depends on your definition of skirmish...

The real thing here is the 3" zone of control normal units have. That may end up looking rather silly with single figures, and it does not diminish with casualties as with normal units.

The other thing is multiple combats. IIRC Dragon Rampant basically disallows this (which makes things hugely simpler). This is also linked to the ZOC (because units can't be very close to each other, there's less likelihood of bumping into multiple enemies). Again, might look silly with single figures and run contrary to what most people expect from a man-to-man game.

[Furstenburg]

I suppose I wasnt thinking of it as a true skirmish system, with all the associated extra rules, such as ducking, leaping, climbing etc. Rather that I was thinking could this quite simple and easy to play system be viable if you just wanted to game with a handful of models on a small table. I have plenty of other skirmish systems I'd also like to try too (SBH and open combat for example).

You could always just ignore the rough terrain rule for infantry, but leave it in place for cavalry. Although in dragon Rampant the light infantry dont really fight in formation, unless they form wall of spears. I suppose you could suggest that rough terrain influences combat more in that there are things blocking combat (trees, bushes etc) or the terrain itself provides uneven footing, which even individuals may find difficult to fight in at full effectiveness.

You could, like many have done already, reduce the ZOC to 1" rather than 3"

One thing we are also thinking of is allowing more points for special rules to add flavour to units. 30 points for standard games but only 24 points can be spent on buying units. The final 6 are for abilities only. You can still spend less on units if you want to.

[Hobgoblin]

Maxxon makes some very good points.

I suppose I wasnt thinking of it as a true skirmish system, with all the associated extra rules, such as ducking, leaping, climbing etc. Rather that I was thinking could this quite simple and easy to play system be viable if you just wanted to game with a handful of models on a small table. I have plenty of other skirmish systems I'd also like to try too (SBH and open combat for example).

It will certainly work - it's a great game, and it handles multi-based units or single-model units fine. And yes, it will give a nice simple game. I'm not sure if it would be as good as the alternatives, though - especially on a smaller table.

On that note, have you ever tried Hordes of the Things? It's massed battles, but with relatively few figures (perhaps 30 on one side - representing thousands). It looms large in the DNA of both SBH and DR (Dan Mersey has said that it's a favourite of his), and it's designed to be played on a small table: three feet or a metre square for 28mm. Models are multi-based, but you can use those in DR without problem (I actually prefer playing DR with HOTT units, for speed). I'd recommend it hugely to anyone who likes DR. It certainly gives a brilliant game in little space.

You could always just ignore the rough terrain rule for infantry, but leave it in place for cavalry. Although in dragon Rampant the light infantry dont really fight in formation, unless they form wall of spears. I suppose you could suggest that rough terrain influences combat more in that there are things blocking combat (trees, bushes etc) or the terrain itself provides uneven footing, which even individuals may find difficult to fight in at full effectiveness.

That's true, but then you get the odd situations where very similar-looking individuals are advantaged or disadvantaged by terrain in ways that don't necessarily make visual sense. So, the peasant spearman (Ravenous Horde) gets better, the militia spearman (Light Foot) gets worse and the tribal spearman (Bellicose Foot) stays the same.

And if you're having to tweak rules a fair bit to get the game, is it really worth the bother? It might be, but you'd probably get more fun and less hassle out of a "fit-for-purpose" ruleset.

One thing we are also thinking of is allowing more points for special rules to add flavour to units. 30 points for standard games but only 24 points can be spent on buying units. The final 6 are for abilities only. You can still spend less on units if you want to.

That sounds pretty good. I think DR handles much bigger games than 24 points very well.

[wulfgar22]

Somebody - apologies, I forget who - posted a series of reports on barbarians vs undead games with very low model counts (most units were one to three models). And it's certainly been discussed before.

That was me. The battle reports are on my blog here and here. Works really well.

[Engel]

wulfgar22> You know its time for more of those... I LOVED them...

[wulfgar22]

wulfgar22> You know its time for more of those... I LOVED them...

Thanks! Unfortunately, we've just moved house and everything is hidden in boxes so it may be a while...

[Dr. Zombie]

Dr. The Viking and I did something like it here.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=88416.0

One side had full units the other classic rpg heroes.

[Vindice]

Someone else used it for Lord of the Rings, with hordes of orcs vs the Fellowship. What DR seems to do is allow that scaling between heroes and mooks really well.