WotR Rules & Captain Blood

[sotek486]

I'm sure I'll get yelled at for asking this ... but for the record I did try searching through the forum for the answer.

Two questions --- the first for Captain Blood:  What rules are you using for your WotR games?

General question for everyone else ... I see Lion Rampant is popular ... and A Coat of Steel looks interesting from the "other" Captain :-)  Hail Caesar to me would require lots of additional rules to make it more interesting for the period.  Thoughts on the best rules for WotR?

Specifically to A Coat of Steel ... these look really interesting, but I'm worried that they are a little on the complex side of the spectrum?

Lastly, in terms of scale ... 28mm ... "large" skirmish ... I'm thinking ~100-150 figures per side initially ... maybe 200-250 per side eventually.

Thanks in advance for any replies!

Jay

[Hu Rhu]

I would recommend 'A Coat of Steel' for large games. They capture the feel of WotR very well and provide a great deal of background regarding the protagonists.  Their campaign game 'A crown of Paper' complements the table top game very well.

They are a little complicated to get into but worth while perservering with in my view.

[Charlie_]

In regards to Lion Rampart vs Hail Caesar, I would have thought the latter would be more appropriate for the period?

When I think of the actual battles of the WOTR, I think of three divisions of more or less identical troops per side, facing off across a field, with victory normally determined by one flank managing to break its opposite number, with interesting events like certain commanders failing to do anything, inexplicably routing, surging forward uncontrollably, etc.... That sounds like a Hail Caesar game to me!!!

[sotek486]

I would recommend 'A Coat of Steel' for large games. They capture the feel of WotR very well and provide a great deal of background regarding the protagonists.  Their campaign game 'A crown of Paper' complements the table top game very well.

They are a little complicated to get into but worth while perservering with in my view.

I must admit, the rules look very flavorful for the period.  Thanks for the recommendation.  How many figures per side would you say makes a decent battle?

In regards to Lion Rampart vs Hail Caesar, I would have thought the latter would be more appropriate for the period?

When I think of the actual battles of the WOTR, I think of three divisions of more or less identical troops per side, facing off across a field, with victory normally determined by one flank managing to break its opposite number, with interesting events like certain commanders failing to do anything, inexplicably routing, surging forward uncontrollably, etc.... That sounds like a Hail Caesar game to me!!!

Good thinking.  I guess I'm a bit down on the whole Hail Caesar/Black Powder system at the moment.  Too many games where the units hit stamina very quickly and the whole game becomes a bunch of units standing around looking at each other.  That being said, I've played Black Powder for many years ... so I'd say Hail Caesar is my "backup" should not other options I can learn/consume work out.

[Osmoses]

We've played ACOS with around 36 stands a side. Obviously, you'd always like to have more but it was still a very good game. You need a much bigger pool of figures to generate armies by their muster system, and more still to play the A Crown Of Paper campaigns. The other thing is that ACOS uses a higher ratio of bows to melee than most sets, so if you've already got armies organised at 1:1, and you're playing the campaign set, you might have to alter the counters that generate the armies in ACOP.

You can still use the rules for battles regardless of the ratios you already have. I'd urge anyone who plays WOTR to at least give ACOS a go. It's a great game IMO and really is worth the print cartridge you'll use up printing the game components.

[Goliad]

One of the Lead Adventure experts on WoTR - Arlequin - has suggested using "Big Battle" Lion Rampant for which he has provided some modifications on his blog. The basic idea is that you substitute a "base" for an individual figure in the standard Lion Rampant Rules so a typical foot unit would be 12 bases of 3, 4, 5 (whatever your typical bases size is). I have not tried it yet but it seems the lion rampant mechanism plus big units would be really good for a Medieval battle. You can read the Arlequin rule suggestions here:http://arlequinsworld.blogspot.com/2016/03/big-battle-lion-rampant.html

[NurgleHH]

We tried Medieval Warfare published by SAGA (US), re-released by Foundry. It is complex, but playable. So, for big battles it is good. We called it FieldOfGlory light. Someone advertised it with the words: "When you cut out all the nonsense from FOG you have MedWarfare". But I think you need a constant group and 5-10 Games to get complete in the rules.
Lion Rampant is ok, but I don't like these challanges. So I would use Dragon Rampant.
Will try Hail Ceasar, but in the moment I'm personally over-priestley-ed (Too much Rick-in-Rules, someday there will be an ancient-medieval-bolt-action).

 

[Polkovnik]

"large" skirmish ... I'm thinking ~100-150 figures per side initially ... maybe 200-250 per side eventually.

That would be very large indeed for a skirmish game, by which is normally meant that one figure equals one man (and is often taken to also mean that figures can act individually). Games with that sort of figure count are pretty much always big battle games where one figure represents a number of real life combatants.
The larger figure count skirmish games, such as Saga, only really cater for forces of around 30 - 50 figures per side.

[SteveBurt]

There's a War of the Roses version of Sharp Practice in one of the Lardy specials.
I believe someone is adapting that to SP2. That's perfect for 'large skirmish'
If you want battle rules, 'To The Strongest' is very good, especially if you add the stratagems.

[sotek486]

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions ... you've given me a lot to think about!!

[Captain Blood]

I'm sure I'll get yelled at for asking this ... but for the record I did try searching through the forum for the answer.

Two questions --- the first for Captain Blood:  What rules are you using for your WotR games?

Silent Invader's home grown rules 'By Arrow Bill and Sword' - You can download them here: http://www.silentinvader.uk/index_w_abs_index_rules.html

That said, I believe we are using a new set of rules for our next outing in a few weeks time...

[dinohunterpoa]

Silent Invader's home grown rules 'By Arrow Bill and Sword' - You can download them here: http://www.silentinvader.uk/index_w_abs_index_rules.ht

Captain Blood, thank you very much for the rules! They look brilliant and clear like a 3-page gem! 

[julesav]

My group toyed with playing WotR with PeterPig's rules replacing 15mm 3 figure elements with single 28mm minis. Sadly the project didn't get off the ground as my pals wanted more minis on table!

[Silent Invader]

Silent Invader's home grown rules 'By Arrow Bill and Sword' - You can download them here: http://www.silentinvader.uk/index_w_abs_index_rules.html

That said, I believe we are using a new set of rules for our next outing in a few weeks time...

Yep, SAG (Simple And Generic) for the next outing. They have a fair amount in common with BABaS but I believe are faster and more fun and, I believe, more tactical (using command and control elements from the WW1 game at BLAM15). They're also multi period/genre, which is intended to get over my personal hate of having to learn new rules for different games. The rules provide the mechanics, leaving the period/genre to the scenario set by the players.

For those that haven't seen it, there's a WotR game here

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=91759.msg1134047#msg1134047